September 15, 2013 at 9:12 pm #121824
blackdogMemberSeptember 15, 2013 at 9:12 pmPost count: 906
@dithl– I love making comments and giving advice, especially on subjects I know nothing about. (as everyone has probably noticed by now)
My first thought as I was reading was the option of asking your employer for modified hours while you’re taking the course. I think that is what I would try first. It can’t hurt just to ask if it’s a possibility. And it’s in their best interest if it is going to help you to be a better employee in the long term, right?
I don’t know what else to say. For me being up late once a week wouldn’t be that big of a deal. At least I don’t think it would. I don’t usually sleep more than 6 hours a night. But I never really thought about how that affects me mentally before. I mean, I know, I’ve been told many times that it’s important for me to get enough sleep. But I just don’t know how it actually affects me.REPORT ABUSESeptember 16, 2013 at 5:21 am #121832
dithlParticipantSeptember 16, 2013 at 5:21 amPost count: 158
@blackdog, thanks 🙂 I have a tipping point for “overdoing it”, after which I really don’t function well. (Zombie gait, zombie speech abilities). But it’s hard to figure out where that is, and I hate the idea of limiting myself more than needed – done that too much in the past. But then it’s so easy to say YES to too many things because they are all so interesting and worthwhile. Then I end up on overwhelm, which is really an alternate (and not so pleasant) state of being…and my family ends up with a zombie. I guess big picture is there’s no real wrong decision here…will let it rest a bit and see what gut feelings say. Right now, judging the amount of stress I feel thinking about it, the gut is screaming, “NO, NO, NO, NO, NO! Wait til summer!”REPORT ABUSESeptember 16, 2013 at 10:20 am #121838
blackdogMemberSeptember 16, 2013 at 10:20 amPost count: 906
@dithl Well, if your gut is saying wait till summer, then maybe that is the right thing to do. It will be here in the blink of an eye anyway. At least it will be for me. I can’t believe it’s almost Thanksgiving. It feels like it should be the beginning of summer, not the end.
I know one of my biggest problems is I want everything to happen right now. I always feel like there just isn’t enough time. I want to go back to college but it will take two years to finish the course and I don’t want to spend two years in college. I just want to skip to the part where I get the job. In my mind I decide I want to do something and it seems to me like I will just be able to go ahead and do it.
What I was thinking about doing is working from home to make it easier to care for my mother without the stress of having to go to work every day. I thought this was a great idea. Until I realized by the time I finish the course and get hired mom will probably be in a nursing home. And it just frustrates me so much that it takes that long. This is why I never end up doing anything I want to do. I get so frustrated I just drop the whole idea.REPORT ABUSESeptember 21, 2013 at 7:46 pm #121984
dithlParticipantSeptember 21, 2013 at 7:46 pmPost count: 158
Hey @blackdog, thanks again for the feedback. Ya, it’s *really* hard to delay on things. I did the classic deciding by forgetting about it — I get totally wrapped up in work when I’m there, and can’t even think about “me” stuff. So — wait til summer it is. Which I think is the better decision anyway. I had to stay late on Wednesday night, and got home after 9:00…judging on how that affected my day on Thursday, that’s not something I should be doing for ten weeks straight, plus readings and assignments etc etc. Would college be an “all-in” kind of thing, or could you do it a course at a time on the side of something else? I find that things take up as much space as you have…hard to explain but sometimes it’s easier to accomplish things when they aren’t the whole focus.REPORT ABUSESeptember 21, 2013 at 8:39 pm #121987
blackdogMemberSeptember 21, 2013 at 8:39 pmPost count: 906
@dithl, you’re very welcome. Though I didn’t really do anything.
“Deciding by forgetting” is exactly what I do, all the time. And I did the same thing with work too, got so wrapped up when I was there that I forgot everything else. If I had to do something after work I would have to write a note and tape it to the outside of my purse.
I’m not sure about the college thing. I might have to do it part time because of my mom. I may be able to skip some of the courses, since I am a “mature” student. Or I might take an online course, which would cut the time in half. And that way I could make my own schedule.
I was planning to start this fall, but I put it off. Which is a good thing in this case because I was about to leap before I looked. I am really not ready.REPORT ABUSEOctober 2, 2013 at 1:22 pm #122199
billdMemberOctober 2, 2013 at 1:22 pmPost count: 913
In response to:
My first thought as I was reading was the option of asking your employer for modified hours while you’re taking the course. I think that is what I would try first……………
…For me being up late once a week wouldn’t be that big of a deal. At least I don’t think it would. I don’t usually sleep more than 6 hours a night. But I never really thought about how that affects me mentally before. I mean, I know, I’ve been told many times that it’s important for me to get enough sleep. But I just don’t know how it actually affects me.
I KNOW how it affects me (and my son). My son gets physically sick and mentally exhausted and is “short” with others.
Generally speaking it impacts short-term memory. Gee, ADHD adults, short term memory, anyone remember what that is and what else can impact it? How about what we “have”? So those of us with ADHD will see MEMORY issues get worse.
Along with that is increased frustration over the memory thing – so you have a snowball, you have more memory trouble which frustrates you, and the lack of sleep also adds to that possibility in some people. We already say what we think at the drop of a hat – get frustrated with something or someone, what’s the result going to be? Not pretty in my case. On a good day it’s best to not ask me if that dress makes you look fat unless you want to hear an honest opinion. On one of those days, take that times 2 or 3 if you also ask while I’m “busy doing something else”, then I get frustrated at the interruption on top of it all.
The “sleep doctor” lady I see treats a lot of adults with ADHD as well. The ADHD and sleep issues seem to go hand-in-hand. So she knew what was up with me in my first visit. Her suggestion to help with my EDS (near-narcolepsy) AND ADHD was to get a full 8. She said as important, even maybe more important in her studies was CONSISTENCY. Always wake at the same time every day, get to bed at the same time every night. If something must flex, keep the wake time the same flex on the bed time. Our brains are often still in overdrive at the end of the day anyway so getting to bed and then falling asleep can be an issue at times, but she had a whole sheet of tips to help me with that as well. I have to be honest – when I remembered to follow her direction, when I was following her direction, my ADHD symptoms were better controlled in some areas. Not all, but memory was better for sure, and my “attitude” got a bit better according to my wife and a couple of friends. But alas, with my list of things to do, anxiety over things at work, I’m getting about 4 or 5 hours now and it’s really catching up with me badly.
EDS – excessive daytime sleepiness. I can fall asleep sitting or standing, I can’t sit in a class situation, can’t listen to long lectures or speeches (that’s an issue I’ve had since birth with ADHD anyway) so don’t even expect WORK out of me after about noon. SLEEP combined with some Adderall XR helped, but the Adderall effect is pretty much gone now, I bet in large part due to lack of sleep!
The other issue that really concerned her was my sleep states and timing. Normally for a “normal human” (thank goodness I’m not one of those and am in no danger of ever becoming one!) REM state starts after about 90 minutes. It can be 60, but 90 is most typical and normal. Dream state begins after you’ve been asleep for a while, that’s why they are often “middle of the night” things – you wake at 2am or 3am from a dream or whatever, for example.
Not this guy – I enter dream state BEFORE I get to sleep, REM happens moments after I enter sleep at times. The sleep study had that poor doctor a bit concerned and confused. I exhibited signs of true narcolepsy, but not enough to be clinically labeled as such, so she had to put me in the EDS slot, leaning toward narcolepsy.
Imagine you are sitting in a room with a co-working going through an online class. It’s been a while, the EDS starts to hit and you find yourself looking around the room wondering where the couch went, and where the girl went that was sleeping on the couch -only to realize only seconds had passed and you were in a room taking an online class and there was NO couch, no girl. It was so real I was actually in both worlds at the same time, but the one was a dream – it had started as I entered sleep. That ain’t supposed to happen!
Whoa, talk about a drifting topic.
Sleep – you need it. ADHD people need it as bad if not worse. The “I can get by on….” is IMO, bunk. No disrespect intended, but that’s exactly what you are doing – getting by. And what do we think of those who are “getting by” at work? Slackers. LOL. Seriously, do you want to get by, or really live and achieve?
I can get by on weeks of 4 or less a night – but I know that’s just what I did. I wasn’t living, I wasn’t my best, or doing my best work.
Accommodations – they are there for “us”. Don’t take advantage just because they are there, but when one has ADHD, sleep is even more important, and the doctors will tell you (well, they ALL told me, several of them) that SLEEP helps ADHD symptoms and consistency if a real key. So stick to a consistent wake time, bed time, number of sleep hours as much as possible, and I’d just have to suspect you’d find a doctor to put that in writing and make it as a suggestion for treatment, allowing you to get an official accommodation if you choose. HOWEVER, one can sometimes approach an employer or boss and explain things, explain any “Special needs or circumstances” and let them know you are full aware of how things impact you and out of concern for you doing a good job for them you’d like to talk about a schedule change.
I got an official reasonable accommodation a couple of years ago. It worked GREAT. I could tell the difference in my performance, quality and quantity of work and general attitude. Then early this summer they changed their mind and yanked it away. Because it was reasonable, because it was no cost to the employer, wasn’t a hardship and had no impact at all on “business”, it was reasonable. The courts support a schedule change when it meets that criteria and can order employers to comply. Even the U.S. EEOC, ASKJAN and other entities and sites suggest that as one of the top 3 or 5 suggestions as an accommodation! The government supports it, universities suggest it. And in my case, I was talking 30 minutes.REPORT ABUSE
So, at the advice of some attorneys, and an employee of the ICRC, I have filed an official complaint. They parallel file with the U.S. EEOC so the clock doesn’t run out at the federal level. And regardless of outcome, if the ICRC deems the case had merit, even if they side with the employer in the end, I can get a “right to sue” letter. And in this case, due to not only WHAT they did, but HOW they did it, and the fact they admitted it was ok in a signed document 2 years ago allowing that schedule, they have in effect said “we agree this is reasonable”. So to change their mind and rip it away with no good reasoning or explanation, I’m told by some they’d be totally shocked if I walked away with the ICRC siding against me. (ICRC – Iowa Civil Rights Commission as they violated Iowa’s 1960s laws as well as the federal ADA and ADAAA, etc.)
And since the boss was praising my work and quality of work during that time, that just adds to the stack of stuff against ’em.October 2, 2013 at 1:23 pm #122200
billdMemberOctober 2, 2013 at 1:23 pmPost count: 913
Holy toledo! is that a rambling post or what??REPORT ABUSEOctober 3, 2013 at 10:16 am #122207
blackdogMemberOctober 3, 2013 at 10:16 amPost count: 906
That was one rambling post alright. Took me half an hour to read through it, with a couple of pauses along the way, and going back to read over things that didn’t quite sink in because my attention wandered a wee bit.
BUT, it was also a very informative post. It has some great information in it that will be helpful to a lot of people, including me.
First off, I have to say that in my previous post about rarely sleeping more than 6 hours, I was not saying that this is deliberate or that I think I can “get by” with that amount. Far from it. To really function well I need a good 9 hours. But circumstances have led to me not being able to get that amount. And I know it has a negative impact. I just never thought about it from the perspective of having ADHD before. The greatest impact for me is worsening of my depression symptoms, or so I always thought. It is difficult to tell which is which.
I have been working on developing a more consistent sleep routine now that I am off work as a step towards getting better and getting ready to go back to work.
Secondly, the previous discussion between dithl and myself was not about asking for an official accommodation. It was about asking an employer to make a temporary schedule change one day a week for a few weeks.
But thank you for sharing your story about your experience with accommodation. It is very helpful to those who are thinking about it. It’s too late for me. I was going to try to start the process in order to prevent my dismissal. But then I decided that I really just didn’t like my job that much.
And thank you for the info about EDS. I never knew that was an actual condition before. I have wondered off and on for a few years now if there was such a thing as “mild narcolepsy” and I have been meaning to look into it. I don’t fall asleep a lot during the day, but it does happen, suddenly, when I am in the middle of doing something. And I often get a feeling of overwhelming tiredness where I just want to lie down so badly that I can’t think about anything else. And this happens when I have been sleeping well at night too.
What’s even more interesting is that I also start to dream before I fall asleep. Not every night, but some nights. I also dream while awake in the morning. And sometimes in the afternoon if I lie down to take a nap I won’t actually fall asleep but I will dream. It’s been perplexing me for awhile and I wasn’t sure if I was imagining it or if it really could happen.
Good luck with your complaint against your employer. It sounds like you have a solid case and I can’t see why they wouldn’t side with you. 🙂October 3, 2013 at 1:17 pm #122220
billdMemberOctober 3, 2013 at 1:17 pmPost count: 913
>>And thank you for the info about EDS. I never knew that was an actual condition before. I have wondered off and on for a few years now if there was such a thing as “mild narcolepsy” and I have been meaning to look into it. I don’t fall asleep a lot during the day, but it does happen, suddenly, when I am in the middle of doing something. And I often get a feeling of overwhelming tiredness where I just want to lie down so badly that I can’t think about anything else. And this happens when I have been sleeping well at night too.
What’s even more interesting is that I also start to dream before I fall asleep. Not every night, but some nights. I also dream while awake in the morning. And sometimes in the afternoon if I lie down to take a nap I won’t actually fall asleep but I will dream. It’s been perplexing me for awhile and I wasn’t sure if I was imagining it or if it really could happen.<>Secondly, the previous discussion between dithl and myself was not about asking for an official accommodation. It was about asking an employer to make a temporary schedule change one day a week for a few weeks.<<
Even an "official" accommodation can take that form. It doesn't have to be in writing unless that's employer policy.(and it's wise just for "in case") It can be a simple note, email, or a meeting with the boss where you let him know of the need and suggest the change as a possible solution. If temporary, it might be even better or more likely. I believe if one approaches the employer (or others in general) with the approach of "here's a little problem, I'd like to keep it little, after much thought and weighing alternatives, I have a suggestion…"
I have my moments, can't really say it's depression, but I grew up with a mother who had real life diagnosed true depression. I have a small understanding of it, the impact and how dangerous it can be if one is not aware or things go south.
Whatever it takes, take care of yourself. If you don't, who will? You are the single most important person in your life, and if you looked around, I bet you are important in other lives as well.
LOL – this place is fun. And informative. Now I know I have a twin…… 😉REPORT ABUSE
(oops, sorry for the insult calling you my twin!)October 3, 2013 at 1:34 pm #122222
blackdogMemberOctober 3, 2013 at 1:34 pmPost count: 906
Apology accepted. 😉
That is precisely why I am refusing to go back to work. So that I can start taking care of myself. Of course, that all depends on whether I qualify for disability or not. Which is kind of why I am pushing for an ADD diagnosis. Major Depressive Disorder is a recognized disability as well, but the ADD would be the icing on the cake, so to speak. Plus, I really do want to try a medication for ADD again and see if it makes a difference. I have never been on one long enough to really know, and never at a time when I am also receiving treatment/support for my depression.
And you are absolutely right about getting even a small accommodation in writing. It is always best to protect yourself. I learned that one the hard way.REPORT ABUSEOctober 17, 2013 at 6:57 pm #122543
nonniMemberOctober 17, 2013 at 6:57 pmPost count: 2
I just recently asked for an accommodation and I’m in a union job at a school in Massachusetts. My new boss used to be our union president and suggested I get an official letter from my doctor. I finally got the letter and one day the boss is saying “oh that’s okay” when I said I was sorry for being late. Then this week I’m getting all sorts of pressure from her to get two things done. I explained that I put all this extra time in to get it done and still didn’t finish. It takes me three times as long to get things like paperwork and writing plans and goals as for colleagues without ADD. She still sent a reminder again that day about the overdue things. Ironic huh! Here she is someone who has work her whole life with kids with ADHD and other learning disabilities! I know I’m being oversensitive but I am feeling a little harassed! In the mean time I’ll continue to do my best to get the projects done in a more timely manner. There goes my whole weekend!REPORT ABUSEOctober 17, 2013 at 7:29 pm #122544
blackdogMemberOctober 17, 2013 at 7:29 pmPost count: 906
I know how you feel. I hate being constantly reminded of things. And it actually makes me more likely to forget.
But it could be possible your boss thinks she is helping, not nagging. She may be trying to help you to stay focused and remember what needs to be done. I would suggest that you talk to her about it and let her know that it stresses you out.
And make sure those accommodations are very clearly defined. Being in a union should give you some protection, but you want to be safe.REPORT ABUSEOctober 17, 2013 at 7:41 pm #122545
dithlParticipantOctober 17, 2013 at 7:41 pmPost count: 158
@blackdog @billd — I also enter dream-state before/as I am falling asleep. I did a sleep study…but didn’t finish the paperwork. I assume nothing came of it, but perhaps I will ask my doc. This “ability” sure made morning psych classes interesting, all those years ago. Wide awake before class, people-watching. Taking notes as the prof went on, fighting sleepiness while continuing to take notes. Problem was, I would slip into dream state and boy, did those lectures turn strange. My only disappointment was that my writing ability disappeared once the dreaming began. Instead of copious, bizarre notes, all I got was a bumpy blue line fading to a dot of drool. 😀REPORT ABUSEOctober 17, 2013 at 8:41 pm #122548
blackdogMemberOctober 17, 2013 at 8:41 pmPost count: 906
@dithl LOL, that must have been fun.
I don’t think that has ever happened to me. But then again….It could explain a few things. I sometimes do have odd memories that don’t seem to fit, things that no one else remembers. And I sometimes have to think really hard to figure out if something happened in a dream or if it was real.
Which reminds me, I’ve been meaning to ask my mother about something she said to me….or that I think she said to me…REPORT ABUSEOctober 18, 2013 at 2:12 pm #122549
munchkinMemberOctober 18, 2013 at 2:12 pmPost count: 285
I work in the administration of a U.S. company, and I have never had anyone come to me asking for any accomodation for ADHD. I am afraid to disclose my own disabilities (I have more than one), because I hold a job position of high trust and confidentiality.
There are accomodations that would help a lot… When I was hired, I negotiated for the privilege of being able to work from home occasionally. This was recently taken away due to my absenteeism. I’m pretty frustrated and thinking about working elsewhere.
Knowing from the inside how companies react to requests for accomodation, I would not ask unless I was confident I had other job opportunities lined up…REPORT ABUSE
Have you ever asked for accommodation at work for ADHD? What happened?ADDled2010-01-28T00:46:45+00:00
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