Hyperfocus vs. Perseverance?

[Bibliophile]

Interesting post, Bill. I too very rarely can control the “hyperfocused” state.

Sometimes when I need to get stuff done, it just doesn’t activate and I have to work 3x or 4x as hard to finish the task on time. Other times it triggers when I don’t want it too. This happens a lot when I am trying to work out something in my head but sometimes it just happens over a task I start.

When it does click in, distractions melt away and all I can see is the task at hand. This can be difficult though if the task involves incorporating other tasks. It works best when the task centres on one set of actions, e.g. web editing, playing a video game, (sometimes) reading. It is like the mind is looking through a glass tunnel with everything aside from the task is obscured or opaque. Time becomes meaningless, bodily needs become last minute thoughts. It is not necessarily linked with things I enjoy as sometimes it will kick in on something I don’t enjoy doing, e.g. watching a program, researching something I disagree with, arguing, etc., and I want to get out of the states or stop it, but can’t. It is not a compulsion per se as it is not necessarily repetitious, e.g. counting stairs or flipping channels, and does not reflect a fetishizing of a task, the need to do the same task each time, which is a feature of OCD. You say to yourself, I should not be doing this now, but can’t seem to make the switch.

Turning it off is the problem. I can’t. It will stop when it stops. Hopefully, I will have completed the task. If the task will take multiple days or too long, it might not click back in when I go back to the task. Sometimes it lasts too long, beyond the task’s completion and this results in much wasted time. Sadly, there is no activation switch that I can control.

I do notice that it will activate a little more frequently under duress/stress, which includes meeting time lines, dealing with a crisis at work, and other agitated emotional states.

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[billd]

>>@toofat, I agree. “Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts.” I’m gonna keep saying that until people stop trusting everything experts say inherently.<<

How sad. I can’t imagine living like that.

I’m an expert in two areas (dam good in others). In the two, I’ve not been wrong – when I’ve been asked, my answers or repairs or solutions have been spot-on. In computer security/anti-virus I was once told that I knew more about Symantec products than they did, and was called in on a conference call that involved the U.S. Nacy, GM and other large entities because they considered me an expert.

So, I guess, I rather take offense at the blanket statement on experts.

OTOH – experts in the finance industry, or anything to do with government and the economy – they are almost always wrong, and a bunch of loonies, IMO

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[Anonymous]

High-five to you billd. That must have been a proud time for you. glad to hear that you were acknowledged for your knowledge. When it happens in your prof. career it is great, although, i am sorry to say it often does not happen. Way to go!

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[Anonymous]

I agree with Bill and Bibliophile, for me hyperfocus is like the targeting radar on a fighter jet. Normally, my attention is everywhere, seeing everything, but not being able to focus on anything for too long. When the hyperfocus kicks in, it’s like switching from scan to track. The radar only sees one target and will completely ignore whatever else is on the screen. Even if it’s a missile or a mountain.

For those old codgers like me, it’s also a bit like the Greatest American Hero. Sometimes you can fly high, other times you’re just an idiot in red spandex, throwing yourself off a cliff. We need the instruction manual. http://www.hulu.com/watch/112673/the-greatest-american-hero-this-is-the-one-the-suit-was-meant-for

@billd, apologies for painting with a broad brush. My point is that an expert opinion is not a substitute for science. Experts have an obligation to admit when they don’t know something. That’s not to say that I tell my mechanic he’s crazy and refuse to replace my brakes. But I would hope my car mechanic would not simply guess at the problem with a jet engine. Nor would you take your (impressive) knowledge of a Symantec program and use it to diagnose an issue with an Oracle program. You would certainly have a leg up on learning the new software, but without knowing the code, you’d be guessing.

Barkley is not stating a scientific, engineering or physical fact. He’s stating his opinion. There is very little (not no) research on the benefits of ADD, much less any research on hyperfocus. Nonetheless, he’s going around shouting that we’re all defective.

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[caper]

@pete, regarding it being a spectrum disorder. When I was researching Moyzis I found one study that showed people with the 7-repeat DRD4 allele and ADHD required 50% more concerta than those that have ADHD without the mutation.

I experience it as non-binary, and it seems to fit with the way the brain works. I am not completely lacking in impulse control; the threshold where my impulse control works is much lower than normal people. Even normal people have a threshold at which they cannot stop an emotional reaction; the concept of crimes of passion is an example of the legal recognition of this.

I think Barkley’s video on the anterior cingulate regulation of emotional impulses from the amygdala strongly supports this position.

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[Anonymous]

@caper, thanks, that’s interesting. I wouldn’t expect it to be binary, but I suppose what I was asking is, if ADHD is mostly about dopamine uptake, do we all have the same level of dopamine uptake, and the symptoms are more or less severe based on coping mechanisms, external factors and comorbidity, or is it really a scale: some people have 125% of normal dopamine uptake and some people have 200% and some have 400%.

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[Bibliophile]

@Pete-Puma It could also be both. ADHD diagnosed people might have differing levels of Dopamine or Noradrenalin uptake in the frontal lobes from the average person.

Also, is the problem that the frontal lobes are having difficulties at the dopamine receptors? Is there a transport problem? or what if the brain is not producing enough of dopamine or noradrenalin to begin with? There are myriads of biological possibilities explaining a similar set of outcomes and that might result in variations in severity too.

There might also be differing socio-economic levels, support structures, coping strategies, etc. between two different people with ADHD that have the same levels of inattention / impulsiveness, which result in different life outcomes. Your life outcome will influence your quality of life obviously, happiness levels, thought processes and many other things.

There is no reason to assume that it is binary and either one or the other.

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[Tiddler]

Re Bill’s post on hyperfocus and how it happens, I’ll try to be precise about what I experience.

If, for example, I want to clean up because we’re having guests, I fret about it for a couple of days then in the morning of the day they’re visiting I wake up feeling energized and determined to ‘get stuff sorted’. I make a start – maybe by dusting in one room. Once this job is all or partly done, I usually spot something else I want/feel I need to do and I forget about the dusting, leaving the duster wherever I happen to drop it. Eventually I’ll remember I was supposed to be cleaning and I’ll get back to it, only to be distracted or give up again shortly after. This goes on all day.

Eventually get a sort of jolt – of mini panic I think – as I realise I only have X minutes to ‘get it done’. I feel like there’s a rush of energy and enthusiasm that comes from somewhere in my body and I begin to whirl round making it happen. Sometimes I get quite frantic and start making unreasonable demands of my husband – take out the bins, put the laundry in the machine, what do you mean you haven’t done it yet?!

When this happens, I truly feel like I’m watching the rest of the world as it happens in slow motion. That’s the only way I can describe it. Everyone else looks like they’re in a different time dimension and I’m whirring faster and faster, unable to slow down even if I wanted to – but in that moment I usually don’t want to. It’s almost painful to see how slowly everything else is going while I’m like this. My husband says he doesn’t think I’m actually moving any faster than him, but he does think my anxiety levels go up.

I feel good though, and ‘purposeful’ and I get a real kick out of it, whether it’s housework or an essay or a work deadline. It has to be fast approaching – far too fast approaching or this just doesn’t happen.

This video explains it better than I can – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wF1YRE8ff1g

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[Tiddler]

My husband wanted to chip in. He says that HIS anxiety levels shoot up when I’m like that! lol

Also, he said that I do similar even when there isn’t a deadline approaching – I just THINK there is. It’s more of an impulse issue though than anything else.

For example, we were on our way to the beach yesterday. It’s a 2 hour drive. We pulled in for petrol and he said the second I turned off the engine I spotted the car wash and insisted that we HAD to get the car washed before we set off. I haven’t washed the car in about 18 months, maybe longer. It’s pretty dirty, I admit. But when we were trying to have a family day out? Really? It HAD to get washed there and then? (And we had set off pretty late because I couldn’t get it together sooner.)

Fortunately, now he realises what’s going on when I do stuff like this, he can just be really relaxed about it and help me sort out my priorities.

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[Anonymous]

Got to get back with you guys….I am so fried from my youngest son’s visit..miss you.

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[caper]

@pete: even if dopamine re-uptake levels were the same (I think they vary from person to person), a couple of the caddac videos refer to size differences in several parts of the brain for people with ADHD.

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[caper]

@pete: to further expand on the point, I’m not aware of a single thing in human biochemistry that is statistically identical across different people. Some things (like body temperature) are tightly controlled & so the variation may only be a few percent. Other things like caclium regulation is controlled in a wider range (2-3 nmol/L). Degree of meylinization on our nerves likely varies in a tight range from person to person. The amount of bile your gallbladder releases in response to eating a Big Mac after 8hrs of fasting will be different than how much bile my gallbladder releases in the same circumstance.

I’ve read studies on eye damage that imply the signal levels on the optic nerves varies from person to person, and our brains learn & adapt to the range.

Going to the extreme of identical twins raised in the same environment, their biochemistry will be quite similar but still measurably different. They will have developed some different mutations as their cells have divided since conception, and even if they had identical DNA, our chemistry is probabilistic rather than completely deterministic.

It’s getting off-topic, but here’s a TED video I love that explains multi-cellular signalling.

http://blog.ted.com/2009/04/08/the_secret_soci/

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[Anonymous]

@caper, perhaps I oversimplified things. My point was only that there are two alternatives that could explain different levels of impairment. One is that we all have the same (within a small range) of “ADHD Brain,” and the severity is explained by other variables more than a minor variation in the “ADHD brain” component. The other is that there is a wide range of ADHD brain symptoms and some have “a lot of ADHD” and others have “just a little ADHD.”

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[caper]

@pete: there could even be more than two alternatives, in fact I’d say there are dozens of factors.

To use another legal analogy, the courts used to make simple black/white guilty/not guilty decisions. Now many legal decisions discuss degree of culpability. It would be nice if our world were binary, but it really is fuzzy.

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[Geoduck]

Very interesting. I’m wondering now if even co-morbidities could account for some difference from person to person, as well. One might enhance or override the other.

I swear. I’m never getting the house cleaned. It’s just too much fun talking to you guys! LOL!!!

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[Author]

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