The Mysterious Rules of the Friendship Game

[AbbyNormal]

dreamer, we meet again! I just responded on your embarrassment thread.

Social dynamics continue to be a mystery to me, as well. My trouble with 3’s or 4’s is if 2 of them are good friends of mine, but closer to each other than they are to me. When they know each other better than I do, it feels awkward and I have a hard time not taking it personally that they aren’t just as close with me!! I know, makes no sense, but what else is new, right?

UPDATE on my original post:

I’ve been thinking a lot about the kind responses here and the possibility that I need to have a talk with my friend that hurt me, because I backed off without telling her why.

Trouble is:

1) I have NO idea how to go about it (Even proposing a heart-to-heart in person talk: do I set it up by email, FB message, or phone?).

2) I have NO idea what to say or how to say it.

3) I’m still on the fence as to whether or not this will help. I guess it’ll help, or it’ll make things more awkward and we’ll stop talking altogether, or it’ll keep things as is. Any 1 of those 3 possibilities is better, I guess, than not trying and letting things go unsaid.

4) I’m just afraid of hearing more about how awfully hard I am to take. She can be very difficult to disagree with- she gets cold and defensive, and lashes out, like she did the last time.

5) Because of #4, I almost want to take the easy way out and write her a letter. But they say that what we communicate is 1% the words and 99% the way we say it, so when you write vs. talk, it’s easily misconstrued.

::::sigh:::::

A rainy Monday morning after having fried my cellphone by dropping it in a sinkful of water is probably NOT the day to contemplate all this. Someone talk me down from the ledge!

Abby

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[Bill]

You know what really hurts? Non-specific criticism. Like the person who reviewed something I had written and said, “It’s OK, but it’s not your best work.” How am I supposed to deal with that?? I prefer the person who tells you exactly what they think is wrong. It may sound cruel, but it’s a LOT easier to deal with and doesn’t leave you wondering just what they meant.

So, when I read: “Well it’s not easy being friends with YOU, you know! You’re really hard to take sometimes!!” all I could think of was how cruel that was.

A kind and patient friend criticized me in a way I found helpful. She said that I would start at A, then go to B,C,F,Q and jump all the way to Z before I told her what I was thinking. She found it hard to follow and felt completely left out of the process. She asked me to let her know what I was thinking, even if the thoughts were still in process. It didn’t have to be perfect before sharing. That was helpful advice.

By the way, I happen to think that friends are SUPPOSED to be hard to take sometimes. How can you help someone if they only show you their cheerleading, helpful side? I’d rather know the real person, even when they’re hard to take.

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[Anonymous]

Thank heavens for this site and these forums (formii?). Saffron and Robbo, I have had a copy of Desiderata on my desk since I can’t remember when.

sdwa, Robbo, AbbyNormal, dreamersakura: were we all known as “weird” since childhood?

Bill. I understand what you mean about non-specific criticism; it’s like asking how to build a clock and being told the time.

Gee, and I thought I was the only one comfortable with a one-on-one conversation but frozen stiff when among two or more in a group.

Why am I able to reveal way too much personal info to a stranger, rambling on and on, oblivious to either their glazed-over eyes or darting looks, and an absolute stone around a group of people I know?

Or wanting to hear what my friend has to say when she calls me, yet bombarding her with my inane thoughts and anedotes for an hour after she asks, “so, how are you and what’s new/” Can’t I just say “fine” and “nothing”?was

I was “unofffically” diagnosed with ADHD and put on meds 3 years ago (I’m over 60) after 4 decades of therapy and anti-depressants and anti-anxiety medications. I’m still trying to find a therapist since we moved here–and can’t find anyone who treats adult adhd–just children and teens, including the support groups. At least I have a good medication management shrink.

Thank you, everyone, for being here. I’m really having trouble.

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[Robbo]

Wowee,

Lot’s of us are feeling for you AbbyNormal <<< “A rainy Monday morning after having fried my cellphone by dropping it in a sinkful of water is probably NOT the day to contemplate all this. Someone talk me down from the ledge! ” >>> I know you’re not really on a ledge, but those feelings are so dang painful. More painful than I can imagine. I smashed my laptop and lost; in reality, about 4 or 5 hundred hours worth of re-arranging building, rebuilding playlists on Itunes. I may be able to get something close to another laptop, with that itunes program intact… months from now, just so dang complicated n costly.

I’m searching for the words… Nowadays, our phones are more valuable than even a laptop. That’s what keeps me afraid of buying that new 4S iPhone, Seriously, I’m afraid of the pain of losing it, or dropping it in the sink. That pain terrifies me. I’m reminded of that song by Neil Young, (this is copy n pasted from the iTunes on this mac, the other one, that I’ve only spent about 150 hours on…) F*Ckin’ Up (ADHD song by Neil Young) Pearl Jam Live On Two Legs [Live] It’s a simple song, he just keeps screaming “Why do I keep F*Ckin’ Up”. I wish I could figure out why accidents seem to destroy our insides some days. I’m on vacation from that mystery.

We’re all with you. Very much.

I have faith in my subconscious mind, it’s working on this. The right thing to say will pop into my head, and I hope to come back and help ya some more.

It’s important.

Bill,

Who’s Awesome?, critical people are sometimes dangerous… Toofat has a lot of good advice on this topic here. http://totallyadd.com/forum/topic.php?id=1676 hang in there. We all know you’re doing your best.

weirdwired,

please stick with us, bring your troubles here. Maybe give that Desiderata a read. This web site is about the warmest place on the Internet. Jump in!

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[Saffron]

Just popping by.

weirdwired, welcome to the band and hang in there.

We’re all going to screw up at least one or two things today. So let’s resolve that when it happens, we’ll laugh at ourselves, think of each other, surrender and carry on.

Let’s make it a great day, okay guys?

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[Robbo]

Hi gang,

Hey, I’ve been unable to log on since wed. So last night after they finished fixing our built in DSL, I tried logging on. It worked but I forgot to come back and try to help some more with AbbyNormal’s friendship problem. It’s the same kind of problem mostly all of us have. A few days ago I turned on my computer, just to re-write some of the stuff out of one of my “best of” or actually the “READ THIS” folder that I have saved lots’ of the best advice I’ve found here. I found Ricks post on this thread

http://totallyadd.com/forum/topic.php?id=166

Here’s a small portion of it, copy and pasted <<“There are some good suggestions here. All valid. But I can tell you, the emotional roller coaster ride doesn’t really change anything. As you’ve discovered. The feelings… both high and low… are ultimately just feelings. A few years ago they were joyful, based on what you’d learned about your ADHD. Then perhaps you had thoughts about having it tamed, managed and being fully functional… (Or something like that.) And it hasn’t turned out that way. So you’re feelings are negative, dark and draining you of your vitality. And in a year fro now. Or two… or whatever. They change. “>>

Click on the link, his post is the 6th one down, I re-wrote the entire thing from the screen of this computer, to my laptop (ya can’t just transfer files from a mac to a pc unless you buy Microsoft word for both) just to get it stuck into my thick head, typing it again helps me. I think I’ll read it again now, just because it applies to so many of the relationships I’m lucky enough to still be in. (not a lot) Solutions to my problems seem to hit Teflon inside my stubborn brain.

peace.

Wow! I just made a really cool discovery (another one, here) I was at the page above “Life is worse than ever since being diagnosed” and it [the part of the page that says “this topic is one of your favorites” said it was on my list of favorites, but wasn’t. So I clicked on the link to my favorites, not from my profile page. From the thread that I was on instead. I got this page http://totallyadd.com/forum/profile.php?id=18897&tab=favorites Sort-of a page on totallyadd, not otherwise findable, but buried somewhere in the massive database of web master mystery… it’s a strange and very complex thing managing a place like this, I just want to cast a vote of confidence, encouragement, and gratitude to Jimi, and the rest of the crew here for keeping this giant mass of educational commentary organized. It’s truly a feat of enormous work and complexity. Ask any Web-Master, it’s far from easy. It’s not likely Jimi will find this post in particular, so I hope someone let’s him know we do appreciate his work.

PS, that lil guy on the left is me, and that giant can in my tiny little hands is a 16oz can of Olympia! LOL. no wonder, huh? hehe. AACK,

Lovable picture though, I must admit. that’s my cousin next to me with her arm around me. Back in the olden days…

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[anniea]

Abby, I read the long post all the way through, but had to stop and walk away several times because it reminded me of my friend and I. We have been friends since 7th grade.. we are in our 50s now.

We have similar upbringings (alcoholism) and we both went to counseling to shed light on our demends from the past. We have told each other hard truths.. and the friendship survived..amazingly… I have gone 6mos or more with out talking to her when she has been too mean or rude… It is good to take breaks and work the anger and sadness through on my end. then whatever caused the blow can be talked about without so much blame and emotion.. That is how I see this friendship working..

She came into some money though when her Dad passed away, and she has gotten hoytie toytie.. obnoxious.. and mean… My sister had to remind me she was ALWAYS like that but is MORE SO NOW… it is good to have someone to ponder things with who knows both parties and can be honest.. so, I had to take more time to regroup. I decided IF I go back it will be on my terms… I do NOT talk to her every day (like we used to) let alone every week now. I did miss her, but we were tooooo co-dependant and I was not aware until she got so dam mean…and accused me of being a gold digger.

It has been 4 years, and I am still at arms length, but happier. I still love her, but don’t run every time she asks me to… I cant.. my family comes first..and I am happier… She still thinks everything is about money….?? which it never was cause neither of us had any.. but.. we have talked about it some, but we aren’t as immeshed and that has been good for me.

I just see this as another period of growth in this relationship. I just talked to another on of her friends after I visited her for the weekend, and she gave me some in site.. so I am taking this to consider . We both KNEW we are goofy and outcasts when we were younger but she got less goofy when she got this money…as I see it.. but.. we aren’t friends anymore…we are family, and you don’t give up on family… and that old saying of we have to stay friends we know too much about each other… it is one day at a time… period… life is good..

I guess the point of this is that you can have long term friend ships… I have… It does take work… soul searching and compromise.. space and love… oooohhh I sound so philosophical I can’t stand it!! Thanks for the ponder space… A

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[AbbyNormal]

Thanks to all for the valuable perspective (e.g., they’re just feelings) and commiseration (all who have said that my experiences reminded them of their own lives). It’s really nice to know I’m not alone.

I am still struggling with what to do with this friend, beyond the holding pattern of Not Talking About IT and Thus Not Talking Very Often At All phase we’re in. Can’t decide If/How to get it out in the open or what to say if I did choose that path.

Another development last week though, and it put another tick in the Maybe This Is For the Best column:

I was on a FREE trip with my family for spring break- a family member takes us skiing once a year on her tab. We’d never afford any vacation if it weren’t for her.

I, along with other Facebook friends of aforementioned friend posted a COUPLE pics and updates about our trips as they happened. I for one got many “Likes” clicked on my pics and nice comments.

She posted a status on Monday that says, “I can’t deal with my jealous feelings about everyone’s spring break travels. Although I’m glad to be home on a budget and getting stuff done, I think I’m going to stop checking in to Facebook for the week.” This from someone who took an all-out family vacay to Disney World over the holidays a few years ago.

Haven’t bothered to communicate with her in other ways lest I talk about where I was or what I was doing and make things worse.

I know, I know- I can choose not to take this personally, because it’s probable that she had many other people who were taking trips at the same time.

But her post struck me as really whiney and immature, and made me think, “Wow, there’s another example of hardness and negativity I see coming from her.” And then I thought, “How much do I really want to invest in trying to re-establish closeness?” Kind of a “Is it worth it anymore?” feeling.

Ok, come on, don’t be shy- tell me I’m being knee-jerk judgemental, I can take it!

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[AbbyNormal]

I’m going to add another post here in the hopes that it’ll get noticed at the top of the forum list because I could use some perspective on my last comment, just above this one.

Maybe I’m beating a dead horse and don’t need any more advice/perspective. I have been known for overthinking things, imagine an ADHD’er doing THAT!!!!

Abby

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[Anonymous]

Golly AbbyN…..I’m not sure what your looking for but……here goes. Yes… maybe, just maybe, your friend is upset at having to stay at home knowing others (friends) are off in fun-land…….if that’s how he/she feels….hmmm that is how he/she feels….maybe a little sad, missing his/her friends at break time….slightly lonely maybe??? Choosing jealousness and envy as responses may well be punishment enough on their own for your friend….I don’t know??? I’m not sure sadness and loneliness are inappropriate feelings at such a festive time……not for me to judge really….and I’m not so sure I would choose to judge my friend’s comments spawned by hurt in the first place??

Funny I know, but electronics (the web) is not a real good tool to one’s convey feelings and emotions….they are often misinterpreted….. most communication as you know is none-verbal, so all of your friends voice inflection, tone, eyes, body language is missing. Benefit of the doubt..what is the risk??? It might be nice to call your friend when you get home and say yesss….I had I nice time on my vacation, but I really missed you, and I’m glad to be back with my friend!!! It might even be nice to ask how they are doing knowing they were home alone….then sit back and just listen to your friend….they might appreciate the opportunity to share and just have a good friend who cares for them…listen…..just listen and care.

Isn’t that what good friends do…….I don’t know….I’m just sayin????

Toofat

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[kc5jck]

I agree with Toofat. Give your friend a call with the plan to just sit back and listen. Let the conversation be about your friend unless encouraged otherwise. Try to make it a you, you, you conversation instead of a me, me, me conversation. You might also prepare yourself to be dumped on with a rant of some sort or another. If so, as hard as it might be, try not to take it personally and respond in kind. Apologize for any and everything whether your fault or not.

I would say that if you do this, then you have made your best effort to reestablish the friendship. Otherwise, if you don’t, you may spend the rest of your life wondering what would have happened if you had and regret that you didn’t

And if your friend has really turned into a %&*$@, you can always terminate the friendship, if it could be called that, at a later date.

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[Robbo]

Here’s a good thing about The Secrets of Body Language, it’s the history channel without commercials. 90 minutes. The first 20 or so is annoying because it’s all presidents n politicians. But then it gets worse, the media, some not too awful. Then some horrible tragic news stories. Humans lie lie lie, but there’s hope we can be less deceived if we learn to read body language n “micro-expressions” It’s a little hard to watch, educational though. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQENwD-QlRA&feature=related Depending on your perspective, ya might like the first part. We get to watchhumanpuppets! LOL

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[FirstNations]

New here! That’s a good series, Robbo; I’ve seen it. Another good one is called ‘The Face’ or something similar; it had John Cleese and Elizabeth Hurley and explained the hows and whys of facial expressions, ‘micro expressions’ and so forth. Gotta look that one up on the webs. It was really entertaining and easy to ‘get’. Worth a gander.

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[Anonymous]

Hi there FN……..welcome to our little community!!! Nice place to visit, safe place to fall down…….good folks, with good hearts….everywhere!!!

Toofat

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[g.laiya]

abbey normal, i don’t think there’s a games over rule unless one or both of you have decided that it is. if you both want to continue, you’ll find a way. sometimes we say/do hurtful things we wish we could take back, right? i know i certainly have. she probably feels like sh$% having said that to you, and doesn’t know how to go forward, or doesn’t want to address it for fear of re-opening the wound, or doesn’t want to shine the light on her own imperfection.

maybe it would be helpful to write her a note/letter telling her how hurt you were by the comment, but that you’re now looking at it as a possible catalyst to improve your communication and help your friendship thrive again. and she’ll then have time to really mull it over before having to respond. personally, i find it much easier to organize my thoughts and what i really want to convey if i write a letter – especially when i’m really emotionally charged . perhaps suggest that if there are specifics that bother her, she could tell you, and then you can see if theres a way (s) to work on those things. or maybe it’s not something you can or want to work on on, and you’ll just go your separate ways, perhaps just remembering eachother on birthdays and holidays, maybe doing lunch once a year to catch up, and then…who knows?

and that facebook comment…..your reaction seems to me, yeah, kind of knee-jerk, i’m guessing because you are already disenchanted with the friend, one foot out of the door of the relationship? are you looking for a reason/excuse to say “that’s it – i’m done with her!”?

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