High pain tolerance, ok, but why?

[Anonymous]

Hi, I was wondering, I’ve searched a lot on ADD and realized that a lot of people who have ADD also have a high tolerance for physical pain. This is something that was wondering my mind for some time now. I’m not diagnosed yet, but am sure that I’m ADD Overfocus.

I take traditionnal jiu jitsu lesson (the way of the samurai, ancester of judo), and it’s almost 1h30 of pain. Most of people who tried it, never stayed because not everybody is capable of handling the pain we go through. Submission, articulation going the wrong way, pressure point, control of the opponent by inflicting pain,… Well, this is not for the faint hearted. But, I am capable of handling the pain like no one in my classe. Sometimes, technique we use can bring the toughest guy to tears when to me, I feel praticaly nothing. It’s almost dangerous, once, I dislocated my elbow because the pain didn’t get me to tapout until it snaped. Some pressure point (near the hear or the neck,…) normally is enough to submit someone, but for me, it’s like a mosquito bite. They often have to change the technic so I can feel pain.

So I would like to answer my classmate aboute the question they often ask me : How am I capable of enduring that much pain?

Is it because I have so much going on in my mind, that pain is just another thought I switch my attention over?

thank you

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[Anonymous]

“Is it because I have so much going on in my mind, that pain is just another thought I switch my attention over?”

Cool post! Maybe?! If you are ADD I think it also has something to do with hyper-focusing. My ADD brain is hard wired for stress tolerance and oh yes I have a HUGE pain tolerance level too. That get’s me in trouble with dentists a lot. In fact I am enduring pain right now that has been making my left arm and hand tingle for months. I just need to go to the doctor, but I hate going to the doctor.

I think ADD is linked to a “Warrior” spirit or gene. In the film they talk about how we are calm when the world around us is coming apart. We can be trained to fly fighter jets but hate the paperwork they told us. Here is a cool story for ya.

I was driving a new 2004 Hyundai Accent down the interstate at 70MPH (legally) and a construction sign as big as my windshield came right at me tumbling end over end. There was a semi tractor-trailer in the right lane and the sign hit his driver side mirror and deflected right at me. Instantly my mind saw this metal sign coming at me like a guillotine blade. Mind you my wife/high school sweetheart of 10 years was in the passenger seat and the sign was 50 milliseconds from entering the car through the windshield and killing her instantly. Fortunately we ADD folks can think lightning fast, and then react without hesitation (a huge advantage in MA right?). Oh but wait it gets better; our 1 week old firstborn son was in his car seat in the backseat behind her!

Instantly I wrenched the car to the left where there is NO SHOULDER just a concrete barrier separating northbound and southbound lanes of traffic. I lost traction and the car pulled hard toward the wall. I steered into the “spin” and got traction back then had to wrench the wheel to the right and rail towards the semi truck. That scared the truck driver to death, so he hit the Jake-brake and started to slow down even faster. Traffic was piling up behind me as i swerved back and forth between death by wall or truck. I swerved across both lanes about 6-8 times as the back end tried to pull out in front and put the car in to a 360 degree spin-out.

The whole time I was as calm as a stone on the bottom of a smooth lake. My wife was out of her mind and trying hard not to scream for not to startle the baby. She was saying OH S*&^%! every time the car swung toward the wall or the truck. I just kept saying it’s going to be OK honey and I put one hand on her leg and steered with the other hand back and forth. Bushido – ready for death before dishonor – I had the whole Zen mind going on. Never been so clear as that moment before or since!

With each swing I gained more traction on the wet interstate and took an immediate exit. The truck followed me. We both (the truck driver) got out of our rigs and shook uncontrollably for about 5 minutes. I walked past him to the mini mart doorway and he stopped me right there.

Truck driver said: “Hey man that was some damn good driving; I want to shake your hand!” I said S&^% man, it’s shaking enough already!” We talked for a moment. He said he saw I had the baby in the backseat and he was in sheer terror for us. We both agreed that this was some kind of miracle.

Looking back I see that science can explain it all with ADD symptomology and physics. For one thing, my best friend when I was 17-18 was into racing stock cars on the local dirt track racing circuit. That’s where I learned how to steer into a spin to regain traction. Driver’s ed won’t teach you how to do that. So yeah I guess we are kind like Superman with nerves of steel!

PS do you enjoy fighting? I sure used to when I was a kid, but for the wrong reasons. I have been thinking of taking Kung Fu for decades now. I have read the book of 5 Rings and The Art of War too.

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[Anonymous]

maybe its a dopamine thing? low dopamine levels don’t just mean issues with attention, focus, etc, but dopamine is also active in affecting sensitivity to pleasure and pain…. not enough dopamine means not enough stimulation, not enough attention, not enough pleasure, not enough pain sensitivity…

i know this isn’t exactly a medical website- but it makes interesting reading -for me, at least:

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/09/the-attention-allocation-deficit/

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[Anonymous]

Great post and topic….. awesome link Jen and Sub Links…….

I am curious is our hyperfocussing on the end tasks and the great pleasure we get from them part of the issue. I have and had many serious injuries… Broken bones, lacerations and puncture wounds from accidents at work home sports playing etc. I am able to often work through them until the immediate task at hand has been completed and the reward and perceived stimulation achieved from that is achieved. Even at he risk of serious injury. Is this a dopamine issue or is this just a trained and learned behavior?…. For me If i get a blood blister under my nail and it causes extreme pain surpressing me from completeing a renovation Heck i just pull out a Drill and and bit and relieve the longterm pain and dicomfort by inducing even a greater but short lived pain to get to the end result and Rush i feel in completing a job on time…….. I learned that skill from dear old dad!

Why is it I have procstinated in getting my shoulder operated on even though I have scientific proof that it is F’ up ( Xrays, MRI,s multiple opinions)? Why am i hyperfocussed on the negatives as opossed the positives regarding it……. Why can I not create a plan to move forward beyond the injury.If it is as they say career ending as a physical contractor. Is this a dopamine issue or something else….. Wow if I have to retrain myself and go back to school what about the difficult study and book learning issues I have…… Are meds going to help surpress the distractions in my brain so i can try to absorb, and remember at a later date the information to pass the courses.

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[Anonymous]

thats a whole bucketload of questions.

i think for me, the hyperfocus bit is that i have just as much trouble turning my focus *off* again once its actually attached to something, as i do getting it hooked in the first place- also there is a bit of a thrill in feeling like you’re acheiving something when you spend so much time floundering- when i’m on a roll i don’t wanna stop cos i never know when the next one will come around. its kinda like a little kid riding a bike for the very first time without someone holding onto the back- i don’t wanna stop pedalling cos i know i might lose control and fall off, which’d hurt, and i’m not confident about if or when i might manage to repeat the amazing feat of keeping my balance and travelling at speed unaided again- you just cling onto that moment of hard earned awesomeness with dear life!

with your shoulder- the unknown, or knowing that whats coming next is gonna be hard or daunting- thats like the best fuel ever for procrastination. the pain you know feels safer than the unknown might- its tangible, familiar, you know you can handle it- because you already are handling it, etc. this sort of thing has kept me from getting a job for years now- even though realistically i know i can and will handle it -if i put decent plans in place and stop picking on myself and setting unreal expectations- its just gonna be a bit of an uphill struggle for a while while i learn how to cope- which isn’t something i enjoy. i don’t enjoy not being employed either… but at least i know it- its familiar, and safe. as far as i know nobody is gonna fire me for not sitting infront of the tv organisedly enough, talking to the cat using innapropriate language, or showing up too late for a shower.

focusing on the negatives is a misguided coping strategy- subconciously you’re preparing yourself for the worst so you don’t get a horrible suprise, and warning yourself that nastiness is pending, to avoid an unexpected unpleasant experience- being aware of problems is a practical thing, but perspective is important and the balance easily gets way off. if you’re like me then you’re probably also overusing the whole ‘rabbit in the headlights’ respose that says ‘if i don’t do anything, stay very still, and shut my eyes…. maybe it’ll not see me and go away!’.

obviously thats not the case here, and you’re just postponing the inevitable, but it sure as hell feels nicer to go “lalalalalalaaa” with your fingers in your ears and your eyes closed, than actually sitting down, taking a deep breath, and wading through a whole pile of daunting, concentration-requiring stuff does…. for a while, at least.

there does come a point when your eyes start to hurt from being screwed up so long, and you can’t sing with your fingers in your ears quite loudly enough to drown out the knowledge that the poo is heading rapidly towards the fan, and you can smell it pretty strongly…. and then if you’re anything like me, you desperately start playing catch-up and cursing yourself for not getting on with it earlier. but then hyperfocus and adrenaline kicks in, you wing it, and somehow it all turns out ok… usually. but urgh- the stress… so much stress.

the right medication might well tune out the background noise in your brains little radio receiver enough that you can focus and get things done with much less drain on resources. i know that every time my dose of straterra has been increased i suddenly realise a day or two later that i feel dramatically much less foggy mentally than before, that i’ve got just a few thoughts at a time going instead of the previous usual swirling bucketload, and that i can complete a task…. say… like cooking a meal- that involves lots of co-ordinated moves and quick responses (adding things at the right time, getting tools from drawers, dodging whiny cats, remembering why i went to the cupboard, adjusting the heat, etc) without constantly second guessing myself, going blank, and walking in circles- just a little bit easier. my tension levels drop a bit, my impulse control gets better, and my sleep pattern balances out (i used to struggle insanely to get ready for and into bed, and then wake up late feeling groggy).

obviously you are still gonna have to work when you’re back at school, just like everyone does- new information and concepts probably are not gonna magically just jump off the page, crawl into your brain, file themelves, and then pop back out again upon request while you just sit there openmouthed picking your nose (i wish!). but if you can get the right support for your ADHD – maybe get funding to see a learning styles and needs assessor type person, someone who knows all the strategies and who can get you a dictaphone or whatever works for you (personally i think i’d need a study coach to check in with every day for 10 minutes or so- to say “ok, whats on the books for this week? lets make a planning sheet?! did you do that essay last night? where did you get stuck? how can we fix that? and generally prompt me, make sure i stay on track, and encourage me to resolve problems instead of procrastinating) there is no reason why you shouldn’t be able to succeed.

like anything, i bet it’ll be much easier and smoother sailing if you don’t try and mentally or practically bite off more than you can chew- cos thats a recipe for *feeling* like a failure, and tends to lead to my deciding to just give up on a whim. you might need to do one course at a time, focus on one hour at a time, follow a different schedual to the majority of the students, have tests delivered in a different format, or whatever- but there is pretty much ALWAYS a way of making something work, its just a case of finding it, and being stubborn enough to follow through.

going back to your operation- what i’ve started doing is scrapping confronting the big long term plan (cos when i see it or try and think about it, it looks huge and unsurmountable, i start to feel very sick, my mind races in circles, i find myself desperately flapping my arms, and get the urge to get under the duvet and hide)… and getting onto a *little* plan.

i can’t ‘go out and get a job’ today, cos quite frankly, the idea makes me want to pee myself, but i can cope with maybe… reading an application form. just looking at it. nothing more. and tomorrow i will tell myself that can scan and print a copy of it, and doodle some ideas down in the boxes- thats all. and the next day i can organise them- get it all tidy- thats all. then the next day i can type it up on screen, and shut my eyes and press ‘send’. at some point, i will end up in a job. but it’ll not be tomorrow, and i won’t be desperately treading water and wondering what the hell happened, to quite the same extent as i might otherwise be.

maybe you could do the same thing with your surgery? baby steps. tell yourself that its gonna happen- but later, and take little steps towards working out and setting up your college moves -one every day, until the plan comes together and you’re doing it without even realising it, and it turns out to not actually be half as bad as you’d imagined- maybe even awesome. you could end up wishing you’d done it years ago- that sort of thing happens. .

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[Anonymous]

jenn.

Not a great day today so i will read the post later………but I love the length couz? I enjoy your waves……

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[Anonymous]

Jenn I love your username how original. I picked up on something you said”

i can’t ‘go out and get a job’ today, cos quite frankly, the idea makes me want to pee myself, but i can cope with maybe… reading an application form.

I work as an Employment Specialist working with Mental Health consumers. You don’t have to do this alone! Go to your local state Vocational Rehabilitation services office and ask to sign up. If you are taking psych meds (for ADHD or ?else) I imagine you would qualify for help. There are experts like me out there who are eager to get you feeling confident again and help you transition back to work.

Do a goggle search on Supported Employment – also look for Virginia Commonwealth University who has a whole lot of information about Supported Employment.

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[Anonymous]

I wish I had a high pain tolerance. I cry like a baby at a lot of things. I guess I had some pain tolerance during college when I was struggling with a newly sustained herniated disk. It was a struggle to ride my bike. To get to class and back home again. To sit through class and pain attention and take notes. To sit through tests when I wanted to scream. Etc. It came from a judo injury I suffered. have been struggling with it ever since. I had an injection so it doesn’t bother me as much now. But I have to be careful.

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[Anonymous]

njadd- bollards that was long!- i’m sorry. the brain just won’t stop the fingers. think yourself lucky that you don’t have to try and hold a spoken conversation with me, at least.

mike- i got a whole bunch of meds! . i did look into seeing someone at ontario works recently, but i got a bit aprehensive that they might try and push me into something that wasn’t right for me- the last time i got ‘support’ (all be it in the uk) i got pretty quickly pushed into volunteer work and then backed into a corner with limited choices and big repercussions for not conforming to their agenda. i’m not saying that’d happen now, i just think i could use a bit more ‘get your head together’ time. i went and saw a careers guidance councellor a few weeks ago and they really did jump right in there and practically try and get me enrolled in college for some pretty wacky careers within about an hour of meeting me. too keen! too quick!

the boyfriend is confusing me too at the moment- i keep fixating on the possibility of working at michaels (art and craft supply store) cos i know the merchandise inside out, i’m trained and qualified in the arts field, and experienced in running short workshops and teaching creative activities, and in retail, and i know it wouldn’t be hard (apart from the not swearing or looking dishevelled bits, which would be wicked hard- and the incredible boredom, and repetativeness, and stupid customers…. but yeah).

but one minute he thinks its a great ideal, the next he thinks i should aim higher (unfortunately ‘higher’ in his mind equates to ‘PAID higher’- so he keeps trying to set me up with a job checking the seams of levis pants and sticking on the size labels for $18 a hour or some crap like that which’d have me clawing my brains out within minutes). and then all of a sudden he thinks i should just stay home and wash dishes and sew things. and frankly, i have little clue what i’m doing.

i started looking into university too last night (someone mentioned liberal arts, i looked it up, and suddenly decided i could potentially do that) and then the logistics of the 90 minutes each way on public transit travel stuff and the showing up on time and studying and 4 year commitment and blah de blah brain hurty……

miguel- you’re probably better off practically with the hurtiness- less likely to make things worse, more likely to rest up, heal better and quicker, know your limits, etc.

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[Anonymous]

Hey Jenn!

I enjoy your posts and I am sure I would enjoy your conversation……. I have been known to cause many a persons cell phone batteries to die frequently when I get a hold of there ear……..

I am just going to offer a ………. thought of mine…… Please do not pracastinate long on going back to school,,,,,, I did and I really regret it from many levels… Although it is a definate goal to get back to school for me (AND I WILL). You definately have smarts…… I am not a dumb guy……. (although i was often told I was).

Youre words as typed speak volumes about you….. And I hope you BF has the patients and where with all to support you in your endeavors as he also will gain the benefits in his pocket, head and heart doing so…….

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[Anonymous]

thanks. my mum only said to me this morning that i shouldn’t write myself off at 30 like she did. i really don’t wanna do that- its just hard to keep chipping away at it- as i’m sure you know.

i’m gonna do *something* -i just have to find a way to get my crap together, get enough wind behind me, and make it work- because i REALLY don’t want to repeat past performances (dropping out and being unable to keep jobs over and over really drags you down- never mind sitting at home, watching someone else go to work every day, then come home and worry about the bills, knowing you’re not contributing financially).

the BF has the patience of a SAINT. luckily for me he was bought up by a crazy french clucking drama-queen of a mother, with 3 noisy demanding brothers, and has raised a daughter by himself, so its pretty hard to stress him out- and he’s a quiet, laid back thinker and watcher instead of a control freaky random-tangent-leaping talker and armwaver like me (luckily for him, cos he would NOT get a word in anyways!).

i asked him once (yeah, ok, i ask him all the flipping time ) why he is prepared to put up with me- let alone love me, and he said that he sees awesome stuff in me all the time that i don’t realise about myself- that there is much more inside me than i could imagine is there- and he knows its all gonna come out bit by bit- it already is. i hope he’s not talking physically and doesn’t plan to disembowel me very very slowly, or anything.

anyway, i’m planning on going to talk to someone at the Ministry Of Community and Social Services about a scheme called ‘Ontario Disability Support Program’ tomorrow- not so much for the financial stuff (which i feel a bit bad about taking advantage of, even though we need it- cos i haven’t paid taxes yet- even though the bf has paid a whole bunch of them!) but for the support to find a part time job thats right for me, that i can keep.

if that works out, in a few months or whatever i should be a bit more confident and in a better position to pay for school stuff- i could even do it part time if i needed to- if i’m not done ’til i’m 40, who gives a damn- i’d still have some good years left to use it, and plenty of options- and i could get and hold down a part time entry level job in all sorts of careers while i study, with the right networking in place. maybe i’ll even get credit for some ‘time served’ and knock it down by a year or two, because the UK school system runs differently- so i might have more years of school behind me than the average canadian university applicant does.

we’ll see how much my pain threshold can tollerate then!

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[Anonymous]

Jen,

It is great to see words typed that indicate you have found a great close person of support. It sounds like he does have a kind heart and patience to go along with it. If you keep moving in the direction you seem to be heading great things await you.. The great things are what you want them to be. If it is working in Michaels, Solving world hunger or anything in between (personally as an ADHDer world hunger thing is easy but nobody has asked me so Oh well!). College if that is a goal SUPER. I will say it really looks like you are gainning traction with the ADHD thing for sure…

Ok now back to the pain in my arss thing I mean my shoulder.. I am moving forward with it finally getting fixed as i spent way to much time on the phone yesterday with surgeons assistants, surg coordiantor, office mgr and etc. I am feeling some relief in my head even though my shoulder’s pain has become greater as my range of motion and strength has really decreased. Also I spoke to psyches today (2) not just psychologists or MSW’s as i reached out to some resources i forgot i had to make it happen. To see psyches in this state it is usually a 3 month wait. I was able to spend a significant amount of time with one of the Dr’s on the phone (as a mutual friend of ours reached out to him to explain my plight). He gave me some resources regarding ADHD and PTSD as well.

I was surprised he shared so much information instead of just saying I can set up an appt with you and write u a script…… It was great to be told that he has had many patients that have been treated successfully using the systemic approach of education, therapy/counselling, meds (if needed although i think my friend kinda told him about my being for about the last ten years at least) ….. and support structures.

He was also in tune to that maybe the support structures I had in place in my past were probably not the best and my up bringing/age may have been a slight contributing factor regarding my ADHD issues that I succumb to because of them. Again maybe not because family did not really care for me but it was lack of available information and knowledge regarding ADHD and others in my life that may have had knowledge about adhd but because of there own mental health issues took advantage of my ADHD possitives and negatives.(The great news both Docs have seen these trials and tribulations overcome and managed with great success to there patients with ADHD and PTSD) The other good thing both Docs new my therapist and would be more than happy to share information about me if that becomes Nec as part of my treatment.

I must say because of this totallyadd.com thing I gained enough knowledge hence ballz that I was able to speak confidently with the Docs as usually my self esteam is in the pooper……… Duh ADHD issues lead to the inability to educate oneself because of fuzziness in head leading to the inability to concentrate just to read or not to be able to absorb things i read and therefore making it easier for me to forget what little i could read as that fuzziness scrambled egg feeling in my head is almost always there nad it often made me run away as oppossed to straighten things out right away instead of procastinating which often makes things worse,,,,,, Gosh working with this ADHD-PTSD thing is gonna be easy!!!!!!! lolololol hehehehe……….

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[Anonymous]

yay! *does her snoopy happy dance*

see- it does get better when you work at it! i’m sooo glad you had such a brilliant day with it all yesterday. i know what you mean about your head- stopping procrastinating and doing *something* can be a huge releif- usually all the imagining and worrying we do is 100 x worse than the event itself (it definately covers a much longer timescale, in my case ), and taking control of your future is always super-empowering stuff.

this doctor sounds awesome- i think your friends must have really good taste in friends. goes to show that there are some people out there who genuinely do care about other people, and its good to see that re-inforced.

the upbringing comment rings very true with me- environment can be as big- if not bigger- factor as genetic predisposition with things like ADHD. how on earth are we supposed to LEARN how to focus, behave appropriately, master patience, handle our impulsivity, use tact, defuse anger and agression, be persistant, consistant, calm, and generally all-round stable human beings as children, when we’re not exactly getting it modelled particularly well at home by grownups who are focused on our well being and quick to troubleshoot and correct problems? yeah…. tricky stuff.

seems like you’ve got yourself started on a really good roll- so don’t stop! whats next?

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[Anonymous]

Easy stuff next …… picking the winning lottery numbers………

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[Anonymous]

I never thought that my high torelance for pain could be tied to ADD. This all makes sense.

I was addicted to working out and did not feel like I had a good workout unless I achieved that ‘runners high’. I made the others in the step aerobics class tired and feel like they got a workout by just watching me.

The older class participants would tell me to be careful and not over do it because I would pay for it later. Well, I thought not me.

I got such bad stress fractures on the insides of my legs above my ankles, from getting tired and nut completely getting my foot off of the step to do a pivot move. I would be in tears but stepp’n away through the pain like a maniac. I would go to work (1500 – 2300) at the lab and whenever I could sit down I would grab ice packs and ice my legs, and back to step aerobics in the AM.

Thirteen years later and the stress fracture areas are still very sensitive to any pressure.

But then again not me.

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[Author]

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