Here's a really big part of the whole Holistic approach to recovery-continued

[ipsofacto]

Can’t seem to post in the original thread, so I’m replying in a new one.

I can understand that meditation can be hard to persevere with intially for people with ADHD. I was lucky in a way because a) I didn’t know I had ADHD, b) I came to meditation by way of a relaxation response exercise called “progressive muscle relaxation”.

In my mid twenties I had an anxiety attack. My doctor told me to go away and try and relax more (helpful &$&$&$). With constant stomach cramps and in fear of another panic attack, I was at a loss. My wife remembered a relaxation exercise sheet she had been given while pregnant. It turned out to be a very simple progressive muscle relaxation exercise. I could not believe the results as I finished the five minute routine. Cramps were gone, and my breathing had become less tense. With the help of an audio tape and finding Herbert Benson’s “The Relaxation Response” (76 edition, don’t bother with the later one) I soon became devoted to my daily twenty minute PMR exercise. As I read the book, I came to understand what meditation is as a purely clinical way to calm and connect mind and body (I didn’t understand the mindfulness aspect then).

What I think made meditation easier was the practice at PMR beforehand. PMR is very ADD friendly, as there are definite things to focus on (muscle groups), You shift your focus around your body, and the feedback is immediate. Not only are you rewarded with a relaxed sensation at each new muscle group, at the end, you are left feeling like you are lying on the beach, on the last day of the best vacation ever, and you are so relaxed that you just want to savor the feeling a little longer.

PMR teaches you what relaxation physically feels like. When your body is relaxed, your brain follows suit. It teaches in baby steps, the focus needed for meditation.The relaxation response allows you to feel breathing as it should be and without trying; relaxed diaphragm breathing that is the core of meditation. Another benefit of PMR is that after a while you start to be very aware of physical tensions in your body during daily activities. You walk taller, you sit comfortably in meetings, you don’t get tension headaches (or when you do, you relieve it in minutes by relaxing the muscles in your neck). Eventually you can use a release only variation of PMR and this is a great way to start a meditation session.

It seems to me that this kind of approach is fundamentally different from listening to a relaxation script or hypnotism because of the mindfulness training that is part of the process. I can see though that it’s not for everyone. The first time I started on this road, I was desperate for relief from anxiety. The second time, I was desperate for relief from ADD symptoms. There will not be a third time. I know now, that mindfulness requires ongoing practice.

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[Robbo]

Thanks ipsofacto,

I have to admit, I got an attitude and just about quit coming here when I couldn’t post on this thread last time I was here. You did what I thought about, bit didn’t cuz, hmm. cuz I’m a d*&k sometimes. Good idea!

Meditation is definitely a key ingredient in living an all around better life with adhd, thyroid problems, G.I. issues, and being a human being in general, we all have our different bags of co-morbidodities. I want to answer ashockly’s question about the meditation connection. I think meditation is an excellent way to zero in on learning to practice mindfulness, it’s like a mental workout, we get better at mindfulness by meditating. I like to keep it really simple. Mindfulness is becoming a non judgmental observer, or spectator of our own thinking. While meditating I simply pay more attention to whatever my brain chooses to think about. It’s like a dog on the end of a long leash. The trick is to be gentle but firm about me being fully in control of how far I let the dog wander off the path I’m leading it on. I compare my brain to a dog on a leash. I might walk (roll) around the block, covering maybe half a mile, but the dog probably travels a few miles at the same time. Because it’s zig zagging all over the place, smelling this, peeing on that. Constantly being distracted by kids on skateboards, other dogs. Shiny things!, “Wow!, cool truck”, “hey! dang I wish I was on that bike”… etc. What I do that’s different is I’m never hard on the dog. I’m extremely gentle about pulling back on the leash when it strays too close to the street for example. No matter what my mind decides to think about, I’m never harsh or judgmental with it. I do make sure that I gradually train my mind to do what I direct it to do, like a parent, I’m consistent and patient. That’s why meditation is important. It’s time I set aside to completely give 100% of my attention, interest, and love to my thinking. I like to use a mantra. It doesn’t matter how many times I have to bring my mind back to repeating the mantra. I’m willing to take the time. like a patient loving parent. My mind will eventually learn who’s in charge, this takes years. It’s a marathon, not a short term therapy thing. It’s a good idea to do some reading on the many different ways to go about meditation, we’ve got choices. One size does not fit all. Be willing to embark on a journey if you’re serious about picking up a tool like this. Writing all this helps me; now, if I don’t meditate more now, I’ll feel like a hypocrite. That’s a crappy way to feel. So I’m making a commitment myself here as I write.

This is the goal, the ideal. But I have to remember perfection is not a realistic expectation. It’s not likely I’ll ever get to “enlightenment”, but I’ll see improvement. I’ve experienced great improvement in the past, A lot!. I will be able to “lighten up”. ukay?

I don’t let frustration or conflict of any kind affect my relationship with my brain (the lil dog on a leash) In my case meditation is 100% about my connection with God, my mind’s contact with God. That’s a personal choice. Even if you don’t believe in God. It’s good to have some kind of force, or power you consider stronger than yourself to reach out to for extra help. “A power greater than ourself”. That’s a very old tactic that still does work for lot’s of folks. The people here at totallyadd.com as a group are a power much greater than me alone, a great place to start for anyone. This community is a power capable of helping me learn to live with my recipe of mental health hurdles. Along with good medical care, nutrition, and forcing myself to spend time with people in person. My participation keeps my accountable. At the very least to myself. It’s important for me to feel like I’m giving back. I hope this helps.

I’m making better choices nowadays who I spend my time with, and what I read. Ipsofacto says a lot of good stuff on the first page of this thread. I read stuff like that more than once or twice. That’s just what it takes for me. I accept that. http://totallyadd.com/forum/topic.php?id=2217 , run a search on mindfulness too, that will help.

So, the bottom line…

Actual meditation is the best way to practice this mindfulness stuff I know of. At some point as we’re just a spectator, making observations. We realize most of the emotions that happen are a result of how our mind uses it’s perspective to judge the world we’re in. I redirect the mind to a better perspective, the key is to do it positively, and gently. Meditation is mindfulness practice. Mantra words like the ones in Dr. Jain’s blogs http://totallyadd.com/favoritemantra-words-part-5-rules/ http://totallyadd.com/favoritemantra-words-part-4-busy/ http://totallyadd.com/favoritemantra-words-part-3-–-obey/ help a lot. It’s a pain in the neck finding them all, it’s worth it though, they’re good reading. Good luck.

Remember to breath too. That’s a good thing.

7-28-12

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[Scattybird]

Ipsofacto – thanks for recommending the book about mindfulness in the original version of this thread – “The Mindfulness Prescription for Adult ADHD” by Lidia Zylowska MD.

I realise that my post got longer than I wanted so bottom line – I started reading the book and think there are real benefits to this mindfulness stuff.

I bought it and read the first week or twos exercises – I was really impressed but then completely forgot (or didn’t make time) to do the exercises.

This week had been dreadful for reasons I won’t bore you with and made worse by temporarily having to be med-free for a few days and not even being allowed to eat comfort food for other boring reasons.

So my frame of mind is not good and yesterday I had to go to a large pharmacist to collect my next batch of meds for when I can take them again.

One of my ADD issues is I cannot tolerate large busy shops (stores) and they are worse on a Saturday of course. So unmedicated and completely fed-up I go into a busy pharmacy store on a Saturday. Within 5 minutes I found they didn’t have in stock half of what I wanted, so by now in a bad temper decided I wasn’t going to stand in line for the few items they had so decided not to buy anything at all. Bad temper now a worse temper.

Then I stood in line for the prescription. I’d already dropped off the paperwork so should have just breezed in and collected the meds. But no, of course they are locked away in some cupboard and nobody could find the key. Eventually someone did and then the pharmacist painfully checked every individual sleeve of pills in every box – three times! Now I was getting a two month supply and I take short a short acting version so this was all taking some time.

Unmedicated, hungry, fed-up and my ADD was evident yesterday because the noise in the store was really getting to me – WHY do they feel the need to play such awful music SO LOUD?! The loud music, screaming children, people pushing past, having to wait ….aaahhh.

So frankly I was about to explode when I half remembered one of the exercises in the book. So I focused on a ceiling tile whilst waiting and concentrated on all the noises in the store one by one. The early stage of the book teaches you how to be aware of noises, note how they make you feel but be non-judgemental.

So I listened to the dreadful music, listened to the children screaming, to the chatter of some nearby people, to the noise of my med boxes being opened and the rustle of papers the pharmacist was writing on, on someone coughing etc.

And whilst doing that I just made a note of the sounds but as if an outsider just noting them and not being judgemental about them.

This sounds crazy, but doing that stopped my growing anger and I could accept, or at least tolerate, the part of the experience that bugged me the most, ie the noise.

So the outcome – I stood there calmly, got my meds and escaped.

If I hadn’t done that simple mindful mediation exercise, I might have exploded, made a scene and had to go back today to grovel and apologise.

So I am a convert – I will do the exercises now and see over the next 8 weeks if there’s an improvement.

At the very least, I now know how to cope with one aspect of my ADD life that gets to me.

So thank you Ipsofacto.

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[Robbo]

That’s so dang cool Scattybird!, It’s the kind of thing I need to put on a note and stick on my wall.

It will be cool to see how this works out.

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[Anonymous]

I saw the heading and I’m curious……”Recovery”….from what???

Toofat

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[Scattybird]

Hi Robbo – I thought it was pretty cool too. I just need to remember to work through the exercises properly. Maybe if I make a committment to ‘report back’ I might actually do it.

Toofat – no idea. I suspect this is going to turn into a thread about the definition of recovery and that we can’t recover per se now.

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[ipsofacto]

Scattybird, that’s a great experience. I have real problems with checkout queues/lines in busy stores, but lately I’ve been able to feel much calmer(even when the person in front produces a hundred coupons at the last moment). Later in the book, you will practice observing your thoughts, and emotions. This has been most helpful to me in controlling my over-reactions.

I know mindfulness has been criticized for dulling people’s feelings and spontaneity, but ADD comes with things to spare, and it feels so good to be in control.

On another aspect of mindfulness; I am more often living in the present moment, and a reduction in the time spent on auto pilot. On the practical side, this means being able to pick up three things and put them ALL where they are supposed to go (even with interruptions). On the well being side, I am just enjoying experiences more. I’ve got out kayaking a few times recently, and it’s enhancing the experience greatly. I was surfing a river wave in a deep tree lined gorge. The late sun was sparkling on splashes and waves. I took the time to notice as much as I could, the feel of my movements, the sensation of the water interacting with the hull of the boat, seeing my part in this landscape, and then my own emotions. I really don’t think mindfulness is dulling my senses.

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[Scattybird]

Ipsofacto – that sounds lovely! I started cycling recently thanks to some inspiation from JimC so I look forward to being that observant when I am pedalling around.

I don’t see how mindfulness can possibly dull ones senses. Just the one little exercise I did in the pharmacy made me aware of each noise individually rather than just hearing a wall of miscellaneous irritating noise. That is heightening my senses in a positive way I would have thought.

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[Robbo]

Toofat, it’s interesting you should ask about recovery. I recently read somewhere??? on the net about how some folks are trying a 12 step approach to adhd. I simply don’t know about that. I’ve also read that people in recovery from addictions have a higher than the average person, rate of being adhd. I’ve struggled with lot’s of different addictions, borderline addictions, etc. In general I just say “the disease called more”. If something makes us feel good, makes our dopamine flow, we can sometimes get addicted to it, and MORE!. Adrenaline was the one thing that stuck with me the longest. When we’re healthy, the “runners high” stuff is not an addiction. When my girlfriend used to get pissed off at me and think I was cheating because I was mountain biking for 5 or 6 hours on a saturday, that was a problem. She needed me there acting like I loved her more than crashing down a rocky slope doped up on adrenaline… I came home looking satisfied and happy. Make sense?. Of course she got suspicious.

When I wrote that title I was talking about my own recovery from adhd, and neuroplasticity in particular. That’s a recovery thing. At that point I was seeing adhd as the root cause of many other dysfunction’s. That’s terminology I use. But I never see that word used about adhd anywhere accept that one article I didn’t even read. I think it’s a six of one/half dozen of the other kind of thing. That’s just me tho.

Some people might want to shy away from applying the word “recovery” to how they’re coping with adhd. I can/do understand that pretty easily. People associate it with drug and alcohol addiction mainly, and judge away!, that’s a pain in the butt.

I like the stuff on this thread about mindfulness. It’s encouraging me to stick with the meditation as well as the ongoing practice like Scattylady’s pharmacy experience.

I never got into running after junior high school. Road bikes, n then mountain biking was one of the greatest ways to 1) keep the endolphins running, 2) see more scenery than any runner in a single day, plus be able to stop take in the beauty of a single spot in the hills, and 3) Just plain enjoy life!.

If I could just get my apartment as clean as I like, get 100% healthy, and find some kind of paraplegic club. I’d like to take my all terrain wheelchair out into the hills. Groups of paraplegics get together. One person drives em up the hills, n picks em up at the bottom. Like a river trip. It’s the same thing, only the adrenaline comes from semi competitive racing, getting sideways!, slightly airborne, and generally just getting my heart racing. Good for the brain!. It’s really just a “go cart” for grownups!. Exercise is the one missing and very important key ingredient in my “recovery” from a life with undiagnosed adhd. Not all of us are lucky enough to develop the coping skills, or even have the same flavor of adhd as you Toofat, but I’m sure glad you’re here. You added some important info about how important food is in the original thread this title refers to. There are new studies about how toxins like pesticides in our food are a factor, much more so than they realized only 5 or 10 years ago. Here’s an article I haven’t read all of yet. http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/244622.php There’s another one about mexican kids just on the south side of the border of the US, and pesticides in particular, screwing up their brains. If I find it I’ll come back n stick it here.

Hopefully we can mindfully stick to just the original subject, happens all the time here, huh?.

One good thing I know about meditation, that I struggle with. Most people who do meditate do it in the morning. But that’s not a rule. If I forget. It’s okay to go ahead a do it any time of the day. Doing it every day is very helpful.

That kayaking sound real fun!. Water is the coolest stuff on the planet.

8-5-12

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[Anonymous]

Interesting Robbo. I do struggle a lot with how people define….describe ADD…..I really do….I also understand I am the odd man out even here in our community…but not everywhere !! I recently watched what I consider to be a very very good documentary on dyslexia, an HBO program (always excellent)……it’s on the Net….search “Journey into Dyslexia” which is the title. As you know, many people whose accumulation, storage and retrieval process(s) are of the ADD type…..also view written material in the dyslexia mode. This documentary discusses medical, psychological, and social issues that surround “the difference” and touches on the ADD “difference”, in the process. The people interviewed are real, the examples are from their lives…..if one does not find it motivating and perspective altering I would be surprised. Be prepared for an emotional experience………I was moved deeply.

I would encourage any and all to take the time…view the documentary….from my perspective it is right on…..and for many, especially people who are in some form of despair over their “difference” may garner a whole new perspective…..an understanding…..possibly solace.

As for being on topic for “recovery”……I feel this is “ON POINT”…isn’t recovery just…the regaining of, or the possibility of regaining something lost or taken away…… restoration and regaining of self and well being. This documentary….may well provide folks a solid foothold to that end.

Toofat

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[Robbo]

Ukay,,

let’s see if I can deliver a short one , nnever mind…

Me too Toofat. People who think they completely understand adhd are probably deluded! lol. Fortunately I don’t have the sense of urgency to correct people that we see so much of on the Internet. It’s sortof a crazy, greedy, self centered world these days. I really have to search to find good people. Seems like being the odd man out’s a good thing. I don’t really see you as that much of an odd man out here. It sounds like you’ve been dealing with your adhd longer, and you’ve had some success. We need folks here that tell us the truth even if we’re not doing as well. Lot’s of folks come, their life gets better, n they leave. Well crap! that’s no way to show some gratitude!. I see you as just keeping yourself healthy by sharing what works.

There’s an old saying, “ya gotta give it away to keep it”. That’s part of why I share good things. Also, cus I want people to think I’m so dang cool.

I’ll try to find that dyslexia documentary thing. I’ve been reading a bit more about it, struggling like crazy to understand it. So fart all I know is it makes me have to edit my posts endlessly some days/nights. Some typo’s are funny enough to leave. Even the childish ones, some I just miss. I could go for some deeply moving stuff. Anything to get me outa this slump. Dyslexia might be one of the last pieces of the puzzle for me. Of course, I’ll always have struggles. I’ve got a better chance of putting it together if I’ve got all the pieces. Putting them together is the long part.

Anywayzzz

I’ve been running searches for adhd jokes, and “new info on adhd” pretty much just having an internet fest lately, cuz I’ve been kinda stuck at home, gassin up the place… I found a cool list of things to love about adhd. It’s hard work for me to find my strengths lately, but not my sense of humor. I dunno why, but when I eat beans right out of the can, they work faster!. cool, huh? Then again, I don’t have a wife here to be offended ***fanning green fog with hand***

Here’s a cool list of positives lot’s of us have.

—25 things to love about ADD—

1.Insomnia makes for more time to stay up and surf the net!

2.The drive of hyper-focus.

3.Resiliency.

4. A sparking personality.

5.Generosity with money, time and resources.

6. Ingenuity.

7.A strong sense of whats FAIR.

8.Willingness to take a RISK.

9.Making far reached analogies that no one else understands.

10.spontaneity

11.possessing the mind of a Pentium-with only 2 MBs of RAM.

12. Pleasant and constant and suprises due to finding clothing, or money or spouses you had forgotten about.

13. being FUNNY

14. Being the last of the romantics.

15.Being a good conversationalist.

16. An innately better understanding of intuitive technologies, such as computers or PDA’s

17.Honestly believing ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE.

18.Rarely being satisfied with the status quo.

19. compassion

20. persistence.

21. joining the ranks of artists, musicians, and entrepreneurs, and other creative types.

22.Always being there to provide a different perspective.

23.Willingness to fight for what you believe in.

24.Excellence in motivating others!

25. being highly organized, punctual, and generally responsible………( okay! i lied!)

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[Robbo]

Bonk bonk bonk.

That’s my head against an imaginary brick wall… 52 minutes after posting I came back and it still had the blue “Edit” thing to click on. So I wrote a quick one and clicked away… note said I was too late… The one time I didn’t use a text editor. My racecar add brain realize I could just click the back arrow on my browser. I am so dang brillian some day I simply dazzly myself.

So here’s the thing I wrote…

welp,

I know less about dyslexia now. I took a look at some free download places, none work out for me. I don’t want to give out my CC# on this old hunk of junk computer. I never got around to getting a new laptop. (old story, broken screen) Also I just have DSL so none of those “free download” places worked. I looked at some info about dyslexia on youtube…. hek, how do they know? any monkey can post whateva on youtube…Maybe dyslexia is not why I have to edit so much. Hek I dunno. Where the heck would I find that doc.? can I get a lil help? I know I’m being lazy, I’ve been fighting some kind of UTI type infection, maybe kidneys… badass headaches. I haven’t had to take tylenol 3 times a day for 3 days in probly years!. I never go shopping. Seriously, almost never!, just for food. I don’t complain usually, but they just don’t give ya much here in the US when you work till age 31. my first job was at age 12, 2 bux an hour raking rocks in the Utah sun 40 hours a week all summer, 2 jobs several times after becoming a dad. I have worked hard, and A lot. Payed the disability insurance by having a job that automatically takes money for disability insurance. But…. well, most folks know the rest. Almost never shopping keeps me from getting pissed off about not having money. I’ll try to get myself to really want to see that documentary. To me 15 bux is a lot. I pay all my bills though, I even have my credit score up past 767!. Maybe I’ll try to find a library duh! I don’t blame ya for recommending that thing toofet. I do sorta think you’re a dik now. Jus joken.

So anyone got ideas on where to find that documentary in Ca.? I’m stubborn about shopping on the Internet. Even on a new computer. I don’t like to cooperate with machines doing everything people used to have jobs doing. Robots are doing too much, homeless folks, well I wonder how much more I can be doing to help em. I can and will do more.

Blah blah.. yadda

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[g.laiya]

hey robbo! i saw journey into dyslexia on youtube – one of the users uploaded it in something like 8 or 9 parts, but it’s there to view.

it’s funny, when i was taking my kids to visit my mom in hospital thursday, i noticed on the posting for continuing education for the staff that there was going to be a lecture on brain plasticity friday morning by a well known neuro, and – remembering your op talking about neuroplasticity – i thought i have to check this out! i knew i wasn’t working that day, and figured i can probably sit in on the lecture(even though i’m not on staff) – just wanted to check with someone about the protocol……..

and i remembered all about this great opportunity when i took my kids back to visit my mom at hospital …. friday evening (loud groan)

well, the nice thing about youtube is as long as your internet connection and computer are working, you can watch whenever…

also, i heard beano can help alot with those issues of the green fog variety – they are enzyme drops you take i think just before eating, or maybe just after? but in any case may be worth checking out at some point – there are probably other brands too, i just know beano has been around for many years. then again , beans beans they’re good for the heart…..

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[Robbo]

LOL! @ g.laiya

ukay, beano ***scratching on note pad*** thanks a bunch. At some point I know I’ll meet a lovely lady and fall in love again. Dang!!! this reminded me of a hilarious story. I gotta give the musical fruit thing a rest tho. Nex time. I’ll just say this: it was so loud that when I came back inside she was nearly in tears from laughing.

Hey Great!, I looked a little on youtube, I think???? hmmm, gave up after searching a while, watched a bunch of discovered things instead… youtube must be so dang huge. I wonder… It’s too easy to endlessly surf. Like I used to search the whole internet back when we had window 95. I usually end up with a couple pages full of tabs before I finally escape. I bet there’s some good stuff there about neuroplasticity too, it’s definitely one of the strongest tools in my mental health took kit. youtube’s great in lot’s of ways, but it’s a double edged sword, razor sharp.

Wish me luck finding that, I found some crappy stinkin self pity thinking about going shopping for the documentary. I think self pity is in reality self indulgence. Maybe I’m a bit harsh on me. I ain’t no expert. Shopping sux though.

Peace, n thanks a billion million gazzilion!. (Imagine me doing my best impression of Ace Ventura Pet Detective, w/ extra ham).

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[Robbo]

LOL! @ g.laiya

ukay, beano ***scratching on note pad*** thanks a bunch. At some point I know I’ll meet a lovely lady and fall in love again. Dang!!! this reminded me of a hilarious story. I gotta give the musical fruit thing a rest tho. Nex time. I’ll just say this: it was so loud that when I came back inside she was nearly in tears from laughing.

Hey Great!, I looked a little on youtube, I think???? hmmm, gave up after searching a while, watched a bunch of discovered things instead… youtube must be so dang huge. I wonder… It’s too easy to endlessly surf. Like I used to search the whole internet back when we had window 95. I usually end up with a couple pages full of tabs before I finally escape. I bet there’s some good stuff there about neuroplasticity too, it’s definitely one of the strongest tools in my mental health took kit. youtube’s great in lot’s of ways, but it’s a double edged sword, razor sharp.

Wish me luck finding that, I found some crappy stinkin self pity thinking about going shopping for the documentary. I think self pity is in reality self indulgence. Maybe I’m a bit harsh on me. I ain’t no expert. Shopping sux though.

Peace, n thanks a billion million gazzilion!. (Imagine me doing my best impression of Ace Ventura Pet Detective, w/ extra ham).

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