Exercise and sleep

[Anonymous]

Is it ok to exercise right before bed? It seems that the sympathetic nervous system gets stimulated, making it harder to fall sleep.

One way of looking into this is to keep a sleep diary: write down what you ate or did close to bedtime, what time you went to bed, how many times you woke up, what time you woke up in the morning and how you felt then and for the rest of the day.

Here’s a few links on sleep hygiene and exercise and sleep.

http://health.howstuffworks.com/mental-health/sleep/basics/how-to-fall-asleep1.htm

http://www.umm.edu/sleep/sleep_hyg.htm

http://pfitzinger.com/labreports/sleep.shtml

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[caper]

On the subject of sleep, one of my friends (who has sleep apnea) mentioned that sleep disorders sometimes cause problems that resemble ADHD.

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[Anonymous]

Yes, and interestingly the meds that my mom were prescribed when she was diagnosed with narcolepsy (and later sleep apnea, restless legs, etc) were the same drugs that are given for ADHD, which she figured she also had (although much later in life).

I have found that 10 mg of Ritalin 3x/day dramatically helps my ADD symptoms, but even more importantly, allows me to fall asleep at night when I need to, sleep right through the night, and wake up when I have to in the morning. Without the meds, I either can’t fall asleep right away, or I wake up within 20 minutes as if it were the morning, or every 2 hours. And I drag myself around during the day because I haven’t had a good night’s sleep.

I’m waiting for a sleep study (had one almost 20 yrs ago) to see what’s going on before the doc will issue a formal report – he wants any sleep issues dealt with first and only then the residual ADD symptoms treated.

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[billd]

I find exhaustive exercise shortly before bedtime helps me get to sleep – a good sort of sleep.

I’m going in TONIGHT for a sleep study. They are really concerned and worked me in 3 months earlier than normal appointments.

I get to sleep ok (*unless the kittens decide to pile on my face and snuggle) and THINK I sleep through the night – but the blankets and sheets show a story of someone on the move all night.

I’m tired a lot during the day – and nap on weekends, and tire easily.

doctor’s orders are lose 30 pounds and exercise 5 days a week – working up to 50 minutes, then when that’s mastered and I’ve lost the weight, do 30 minutes 5 days a week.

They do NOT suspect or expect sleep apnea after an exam and questionnaire. I don’t “fit the profile” of that, the throat isn’t right, too wide open, and I don’t awake in the middle of the night, don’t awake with a start (again, unless kittens decide it’s play time and jump on me claws unfurled)

So it will be interesting. I’ve always tired easily, always been a “restless sleeper” moving around a lot.

So is the sleep issue making my ADHD worse, or is my ADHD making me have a sleep problem??

BTW – the doc said it didn’t matter WHEN I exercised……….. if that helps any.

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[jasman]

Break a leg on the sleep study, billd.

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[Anonymous]

Can’t wait to hear your results, billd. I know that I’m doing way better on meds with sleep, although I do need more exercise (ADD doc said 1.5 hours a day, like I can fit that in), and I need to get to bed at an earlier and more regular hour.

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[billd]

break a leg ROFLMAO.

Nearly did! All those wires! I arrived at 7:30pm. They wired me up at 8pm. Then just before 10, put more wires on me – this time my legs. I counted roughly 30 total. scalp, face, chest, sides, legs, straps around chest and stomach to measure breathing, heart, abdomen movement (I guess in case I was suffocating or experiencing apnea?)

Well wake up at midnight and have to, well, uh, use the restroom? HA

They said if there was no sign of apnea, they’d keep me Wednesday for nap studies. They never did answer, but I was there until 4:30pm Wednesday. 5 naps through the day. No clocks on any wall in the building. My notebook computer I took died upon starting – blue screened. My cell phone died, no reception or signal anyway. TV was boring. Imagine an ADHD person sitting in a room with only a TV, no clocks, no books, dead cell phone, dead computer and having to nap every so often.

So apparently no apnea – or no real concern if there were signs. So what is the issue? ADHD keeping me from sleeping??

Here’s what does happen to me at times:

I lay in my recliner/chair Sunday afternoon for a little snooze. I don’t really get into full sleep, however, as soon as I lay back and close my eyes, I go into dream-like state. I’m not asleep but I’m dreaming. My eyes are moving and looking around at images (I’m kind of aware at times) Dream and reality merge. Someone talking to me is talking to me in my dream as well. A person in my dream is still there when I wake, and i look around to see if they were in the dream or not.

I’m aware of one of the kittens jumping up on me in reality, but also aware of going to a flooded stream in the backyard in my dream (there is no such flood or stream, and I don’t even live there, but in my dream I do – and it’s a constant theme – flooding, winding uncontrolled streams and creeks and confusion)

It’s like my states merge and I”m in both, but neither.

I’m tired a LOT, can nap almost any time, but can’t lay on a bed to nap, that makes me sick.

I can wake at 7:30am Saturday, then by 8:30 am fatigued and ready to lay down.

HOWEVER, get me out of the house and into the shop within minutes of waking up and I’m fine for hours.

Thanks for the good thoughts – and interested in other ADD/ADHD folks experiences with sleep, lack of, etc.

Anyway, on the OPs question – “my experience” is that exercise is fine shortly before bed. at least for ME and friends I know. HOWEVER, I’ve also found it’s BEST right after getting up. STRETCH first – for several minutes, then exercise. That gets the body prepped and metabolism ready for the rest of the day. I’ve heard a lot of folks say they are more awake and accomplish more with early AM exercise.

My thoughts and experiences anyway……….

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[Anonymous]

Without meds, I have the napping sydrome (whether I’m driving or at work, even if I’ve had a “full” night’s sleep). If I go up to bed and lay down, I can’t fall asleep.

I also have the hypnagogic hallucinations (i think that’s officialy wat they are called) – sorry for mispellings, my therapist’s advic for the week. They can be frightening. And have had drewms so real that I am certain they happend.

I am a crappy speller when I am rushing it, aren’t I?

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[billd]

I’m a crappy speler anytime, rushing or not.

no_dop – what is hypnawhatever?

is it this:

I was in a class the other day, computer based. Sitting in with another fellow who was taking the class, I was observing and learning. It got into mid-afternoon, well, that’s not good for me – sitting, listening, etc. and suddenly I was nodding, but awake, asleep and dreaming, but watching the screen and hearing some of what was said. I actually was “in two worlds”. At one point I came to awareness and looked over my shoulder to see if there was someone on a couch in the room.

A. There is no couch in that room

B. There was only the two of us in there

C. There WAS a person on a couch in a “dream” I had while listening to the training materials.

In my sleep study yesterday where they had me “nap” 5 times through the day, they kept asking me if I slept. I finally said – you tell me. I dunno – I seem to have dreamed, but was also aware of everything around me, sounds in the hall, and so on – but I know I saw things in dreams – even was aware of looking around, but had my eyes closed in total absolute darkenss.

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[Anonymous]

hypnagogic hallucinations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnagogia

They happen when you are starting to fall asleep or starting to wake up. When i get them, there’s always something frightening in my bedroom but I can’t move or talk, I eventually get a muffled scream out and my husband has to come and gently touch me so I can fully wake up . But I swear that I have been aware of all the sounds and objects in the room. it’s just that some of them aren’t there when I wake up. And once in university, I had an out-of-body experience while in the same state. It’s the only time I’ve had one that I’m aware of.

Our dreams seem very real to us. But reality does also. So which is really the dream?

I edited this post carefully for spelling errors.

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[Tiddler]

That sounds really scary.

My only similar experience happened during my second year at uni. I was working too long every day and getting worn down and ill. I was having consecutive migraines that caused me to miss about 3 months of work. During that year (and occasionally for a few years after that) I had sleep paralysis. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis

Apart from one occasion when I thought I was having an out of body experience, they were simply occasions when I’d wake up after a deep sleep but my body didn’t seem to wake up with me. I’d be conscious, I’d be able to hear what was going on but I’d be powerless to move. Once, I was asleep with my face ontop of my hand, so I tried to open my eye, but I couldn’t move my hand except a tiny amount and I just kept poking myself in the eye and I couldn’t stop it.

I think the whole experience was down to stress and overwork. It occurs to me the price I’ve paid when I’ve actually been able to stick at something and achieve a goal has been pretty huge.

I used to fall asleep at my desk at work occasionally, when I worked in a bank, and I fell asleep at my desk at school a few times, once during a test (and I dreamt that Freddy Kruger was clicking his nails behind my back and I awoke with a start but it was just my teacher checking to see if I was alright. That was is 6th form (age 17) right before I dropped out.

Edit, the only way to control the sleep paralysis for me was to relax enough to go back to sleep, then I would wake up again normally. No idea how long I’d be asleep before I woke up again. Maybe seconds, maybe an hour? But it pretty scary at the time.

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[Anonymous]

Yes, I guess mine is a combination of both. It doesn’t seem to be stress-related, but then I never feel stress until it overpowers me.

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[billd]

STILL waiting for sleep study results. May take until late November – my next appointment there, to know…….

There are times I’m in both worlds – before I fall asleep even, I’m dreaming. When I’m awake, but bored, I start to dream, and have to snap out and think – which was reality?

I remember things happening that never really happened.

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[Anonymous]

Hold on. I might have missed some info about ADHD. Do you mean ADHD causes me to have my sleeping problem? Seriously?

I can never fall asleep without lying in bed for hours and hours. My only solution so far is Marijuana. Well, I love Marijuana. But it also makes me lazy and effects my productivity.

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[Anonymous]

You could have ADHD and also have a sleep disorder. Or just a sleep disorder, or just ADHD. Or some other comorbidity.

Sleep disorders can look a lot like ADHD, but sometimes the treatments are quite different. In my case, I was recently diagnosed with narcolepsy (sleep disorder) – I take a stimulant for the daytime, much like I would with ADHD. I’m also taking other meds in a trial to help with my sleep (narcoleptics are notoriously poor sleepers, among other things), but that’s not ADHD related. Do I have ADHD? The sleep specialist doesn’t think it’s prominent, the ADHD specialist thinks I’m a textbook case, whether it’s 90% of one and 10% of the other, either way I am being treated and it’s having positive effects.

Check out the sleep disorders thread on this website – we also started a thread which lists resources (not for discussion), and you could check some of them out. I definitely recommend talking to your doctor about it. There are simple quizzes he/she can give that will help him or her assess whether or not you need a sleep study. For some conditions, the only way to tell what is happening is with a sleep study. Keeping a sleep log for a few weeks before seeing your doc or a specialist is a good idea.

Also suggest a good book “No More Sleepless Nights”. almost finished it, lots of good info, check your local library. it’s really aimed at insomniacs, but anyone can benefit from the suggestions.

Check the sleep disorders threads – you need also to look at how late you expose yourself to white light. Seriously.

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[Author]

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