ADDer's Susceptible to "snow jobs?'

[Anonymous]

Intentionally or unintentionally, I’ve noticed that in certain situations, usually involving verbal conversations, especially in group meeting settings, or with unexpected conversations I’m not prepared for, such as phone calls, I am easily “snowed.”

I don’t think it matters whether the “snow job” is intentional. I do think in some situations it isn’t the deliberate intention of others to snow me, nonetheless it tends to happen whenever I am involved with verbal communications.

I should mention that I have both ADD (fairly severe), and an ASD (PDD-NOS). Certain aspects of Autism do play into this. Specifically, i believe, my abilities to deal with having been snowed after discovering I have been are rooted in Autism. The fact that it happens to begin with however, I believe is firmly rooted in ADD.

I can’t retain everything that happens in group meetings, or unexpected one on one conversations, so I tend to filter them, retaining only those few pieces of information I find are important to me. This means I often miss many things that are important to others. I don’t usually discover that I’ve missed other important details until after the fact, which means that certain things happen afterward I am not prepared for. As a result, when most communication with a person or group is verbal, I’m constantly playing “catch-up.”

These “catch-up” situations sometimes are numerous and overwhelming. That’s when my Autism kicks in, causing me to freeze up (shut down or “ignore” ~ but it’s not really ignoring ~ it’s a “time-out” span of time I need to assess the situation, and review what happened that caused me to miss whatever it was). Autism also causes some kind of “flash-backs” to previous situations (of which there are MANY), which causes a kind of temporary PTSD thing.

Once I identified what I believed to be the causes of these stressors, I have begun to insist that all of the most important issues I need to deal with involving others, whether in groups or individually, be dealt with in WRITING. When I have a written record to refer to, I can see things I normally miss with verbal communication. I still miss some things at first, but if I have it writing to review, I can at least find what I missed if I need to, and I don’t have to remember exactly what was said. Having it all in writing also allows ME to find things I forgot to say, or to realize if I’ve misstated anything.

I’m trying to figure out exactly which parts of this problem are rooted in ADD and which parts are rooted in Autism. What I outlined above is just guess work, but it seems to fit. I want to know kind of cement in my head how the two affect each other. To do this, I’m asking here, where the focus is mostly on ADD, but I will also be asking the same questions on an Autism forum too.

My questions:

How typical is this with ADD?

I’m sure this happens to others with ADD, but I’m really wondering how MUCH of a problem this really is.

Do others with ADD feel as strong a need to have important things in writing?

Do most, if not all, ADDers have that much trouble with verbal communications? In the same way I do?

Do most ADDers experience feeling as if they’ve been “snowed” on a regular basis?

Thank you in advance!

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[sdwa]

Tentatively…yes.

What do you mean by being “snowed”? Do you mean tricked, or do you mean flattered and manipulated?

Often people says things to me in jest, but I take their comments literally and believe them.

I am very visual – so much so, that if I want to watch a movie, I know I will have a better chance of understanding it if in addition to being in English it also has English subtitles that I can read.

Often, what people say to me doesn’t register in the same way, or is not as memorable as, words I can read on a page.

As I tend not to remember what I read, either, I share information I’ve read with others often by reading it again while writing about it. Thus, when I read my own blog essays, I am always surprised that I knew so much about topics I’ve since completely forgotten.

When I see or hear things I used to know, I remember that I knew them, but in the normal course of the day, I would not remember those things at all.

Often, when people talk to me I see facial expressions, body language, and hear tone of voice, and respond according to their emotions and not the intellectual content of what they are saying.

In conversations, I fade in and out, sometimes understanding, and at other times hearing the words as abstract noises.

I am extremely noise-sensitive, don’t like to listen to music, don’t like the television on in the house, don’t like the radio, and get very tired when there is lots of commotion around me. Visual clutter – like having a lot of junk lying around on tables, counters, etc – feels like mental noise.

Does that answer your question?

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[billd]

Your quesitons:

How typical is this with ADD?

I have ADD pretty bad. I’m often tricked, I don’t get pranks or jokes played on me easily. So yes, I’m rather easily “snowed” in that way. It’s a known issue with ADD that we don’t get the body language hints that non-ADD adults do. Check typical symptoms, that’s usually among them. We miss the subtle clues in facial expressions and so on (in fact it’s so bad with me, I have great difficulty with facial recognition, and can’t see “family resemblances” that others can easily see.

I’m sure this happens to others with ADD, but I’m really wondering how MUCH of a problem this really is.

For me, it can be a big problem – more in ordinary life than business. I tend to check things out in business, but I can easily be fooled by a prank or a joke. I take things literally and seriously, so miss a lot because of that.

Do others with ADD feel as strong a need to have important things in writing?

YES – my first response to almost anything – “write it down”.

Do most, if not all, ADDers have that much trouble with verbal communications? In the same way I do?

I sure do! I prefer written, and pictures. Even the doctor in my reasonable request forms for work said “written communication” was best.

Do most ADDers experience feeling as if they’ve been “snowed” on a regular basis?

I can’t speak for most, of course, to do so would be quite assuming, but I can speak for me……… not on a regular basis, but FAR far more than almost anyone else I know.

Funny – my youngest son is VERY VERY ADD – he’s a heck of a con artist. He’s conned his entire family, including ME, however, I never lent him money – my brother lent him a few thou a few years ago even though my mother and I both warned my brother NOT to trust him or loan him money. He did anyway…………

So my son isn’t easily conned, but he sure cons others easily. Including all of the levels needed to leave this country undetected.

>>When I see or hear things I used to know, I remember that I knew them, but in the normal course of the day, I would not remember those things at all.<<

I often see things I’ve done in the past as if someone else did them. I can’t believe I did them, can’t recall HOW I did them, or even knowing how I did them or how to do it. I seem to know what I need to know at the moment, then it’s gone and I move to the next set of things I need to know. Like a box that can only hold so much info, I seem to slip things in and out as I need them, and I look back in sort of a “third person” view.

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[nellie]

I can relate to this, however I have always attributed it to a memory problem. I don’t think I have the issues some have described above in terms of “reading others” but I do miss the implications of things ( events, circumstances etc.) quite often and so am inclined to miss the bigger picture at times. Then at other times I can see far wider than those around me it seems. I thought that was the good part of ADD?

But as far as missing communication, I believe that it is memory – is the term working memory? – that fails me. I can be in a meeting and a huge discussion takes place and the next day I’m happy if I can remember the gist of it. Someone else, however, will come back to me 3 days later and go and on about the minute details and how this and that affects this and the other thing and blah blah blah. I generally fake my through it

The same thing happens If I have a phone conversation and people tell me specific details about something, I really need to write them down or I won’t remember much beyond a vague outline later.

Years ago, I had a friend who could remember every single detail about a conversation or situation. Needless to say, I would find this very annoying. She would act surprised that I couldn’t remember things at the same level of detail about an event or person from 10 years before but I think she was a freak of nature Nevertheless, at the time I felt quite inadequate and thought there was something wrong with me ( well I guess there is !) but now I am not quite as bothered about it.

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[Anonymous]

“What do you mean by being ‘snowed’? Do you mean tricked, or do you mean flattered and manipulated?”

Apologies! I made the “snowed” reference clearer on the Autistic forum, but forgot to come back here and clarify that.

“If someone does a snow job, they try to deceive people by giving vague and inaccurate answers.”

http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/snow+job.html

“Snow job” usually refers to a deliberate attempt to deceive, but I’m using it here to refer to non-deliberate situations too. In other words, I get so bamboozled during verbal communications that it FEELS as if I’ve been snowed. It isn’t always deliberate. Most of the time it’s just the result of missing so much, and not being able to retrieve it all accurately.

So, yes I mean exactly what you said, but also mean just when the end result feels the same, deliberate or not.

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[Anonymous]

” I don’t think I have the issues some have described above in terms of ‘reading others'”

That makes perfect sense if you don’t have Autism. I do, and that’s where that comes from. Nasty thing having both. Not only can I never remember anything accurately, combine that with missing so much of the unspoken, and you have a recipe for the worst communication failures I can think of.

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[Anonymous]

“It’s a known issue with ADD that we don’t get the body language hints that non-ADD adults do. Check typical symptoms, that’s usually among them.”

I can imagine that ADD may interfere with reading body language and facial expressions. not by virtue of impaired understanding of them, but by impaired ability to pay attention to them.

Impaired ability to understand them is a symptom of Autism though.

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[munchkin]

I have definitely gotten a raw deal with people who don’t mean to take advantage – they are just competetive people who have succeeded in life by being sharp, remembering details, faces, names, etc. No offense to these people – I guess I would probably do the same if I were them. ‘

Still – unless I can’t find some way of equalizing the situation, I’m probably going to try to avoid swimming in the same pool with the sharks. Generally saying – “awww no fair, I can’t keep up” – doesn’t do any good.

It would be nice if everyone was here on earth to share and be their brother’s keeper, but unfortunately, that seems to be the exception and not the rule.

What’s awesome: Having a friend who is good with the snowjobbers to help out in a jam… I run things by other people a lot. Basically, I poll everyone I know – friends or even acquaintances!

Silly example: I ask: “If someone told you they were selling the Brooklyn Bridge for just a thousand bucks, what would you do? Does that sound legit?” “why am I asking? Oh, no reason, I’m just doing a fun poll today!” (oh bummer – I was going to buy that bridge – good thing I did the poll)

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[Monika]

This may be more a matter of limited attention span, poor memory and challenges with active listening.

I have a book recommend that I hope may be helpful, it’s call “The One- Minute Manager” and involves someone taking minutes and sending it out after office meetings so everyone has the meeting in print with everyone’s responsibilities, timelines and accountability clearly defined.

For one on one conversations (and if your a visual learner) you can email them with, “it was great talking with you today. I just wanted to clarify what we needed done and when…”(then list what you remember and they can respond with any crucial details you might have missed.

I really think it’s more a matter of MISSED communication than “Snow Jobs” and I hope my suggestions are helpful.

Great thread, thanks for starting it!

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[billd]

>>For one on one conversations (and if your a visual learner) you can email them with, “it was great talking with you today. I just wanted to clarify what we needed done and when…”(then list what you remember and they can respond with any crucial details you might have missed. <<

VERY handy tip – and when I REMEMBER to do so, find it helpful – a side effect is that you actually go back and write it down, the effect of “meeting twice” – you reinforce it in your mind. If you simply leave, then it’s more likely to leave your head, but if you “practice” what was said by emailing shortly after, you are more likely to keep it up there.

It’s like learning something in a class – if you walk away and don’t use it for 6 months, it’s probably gone. But if you leave the class and can immediately use what you learned, it will stick with you.

This is an interesting topic – and thanks much for the clarification. As typical, I take things literally, so automatically figured “on purpose”, they WANTED to decieve me……….. I’m a VERY VERY literal person. If you don’t mean something, don’t say it! HA.

OTOH – I’m the security administrator where I work – and one duty is to keep folks safe from phishing, spam, scams, etc. I can recognize most such things, but now and then I’m not so sure. HOWEVER, we have a manager who has several college degrees who came to us one day and was wondering how to collect the Eurpoean lottery she’d just won when they drew here email address for the contest………… and our lawyer came in all concerned that her direct deposit didn’t go through and was all ready to click the link in the email she’d gotten. WOW, that latter was SO obvious with the grammatical errors, and it was SO not-business-like.

So I guess when I miss something that’s a bit more complex I don’t feel so badly!

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[caper]

I have ADHD (formally diagnosed) and an ASD (self-diagnosed). Personally I think ADHD contributes to my gullibility, but it comes primarily from the ASD. I’m pathologically truthful (I’m even bad at social white lies) and trusting too. I think the ADHD contributes to my lack of fear of being duped. Being on the AS, I’m very analytical, so that protects me most times from getting duped out of my money.

For me it’s not a problem; I like the way I am (trusting to the point of being naive).

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[billd]

A lot of that fits me as well. the doc said I was analytical, and I’ve not been “ripped-off” money-wise for the most part, but on large deals where there’s a lot of emotional want in play (desire to have a different project car, for example) I have to be really careful and I can be impulsive to fill that need or desire for something “new”. I may tend to spend on the high side just to have the need filled quickly, instead of shopping around. But I generally do fine, can’t say I’ve really been “ripped off” in that way.

I hate “politicking” at work, etc. – don’t do well at it at all, just hate it. Just be honest and up-front always.

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[Anonymous]

I am always a beat behind. I often end up at the butt of peoples’ jokes and will not figure it out until after my opportunity to defend myself has passed. I was a very convenient victim for bullying purposes. Now in my life, it is not such a big deal as people in my life are more positive and joking is good-spirited. My ex-boyfriend used to (in a facade of good fun) toy with me and purposely confuse me good thing that is over! I have some trouble reading people, but my problem in reading people is just being too impatient to observe them. too important that I blurt out that random thought in the back of my head.

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[Author]

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