ADD/PCOS overlap?

[Jeannius]

Before my doctor figured out I and my daughter are ADD-mostly inattentive type, I was diagnosed with PCOS, which is Polycystic Ovary Syndrome. I actually figured it out myself based on symptoms and analyzing my hormonal test results and glucose tolerance test because the male nurse practitioner I was assigned was once again assuming I was just overburdened, burnt out etc…and needed antidepressants. My testosterone levels were quite a bit too high, especially for my age and I had other symptoms of PCOS, including a form of insulin resistance, specifically, reactive hypoglycemia, which I have had all my life.

I’ve noticed that the psychological/mental effects of PCOS resemble a form of ADD/inattentive. Difficulty concentraiting, low energy, memory issues, depression etc. Both PCOS and ADD/ADHD apparently have issues with sugar metabolism from what I’ve read….PCOS, they just say insulin resistance, while ADHD was specifically the form of IR called reactive hypoglycemia, which is you go up in blood sugar then crash, and apparently, it is connected with lower than normal dopamine production in response to carb/sugar load.. I have also seen some suggestions that both PCOS and ADD/ADHD is associated with ‘male finger patterns’, which is an indicator of higher exposure to testosterone in utero (ring finger longer than index finger), though I have some issues with the ADHD findings because it’s only been recently that more girls are found to be ADD, and most boys are going to have male finger patterns anyway. I have also seen on some of the other forums that many PCOS women are also diagnosed ADD/ADHD. Does anyone know of any research being done in this area? Is there anyone else here who is also PCOS in addition to ADD? I am seriously wondering if the mental parts of PCOS aren’t actually a form of ADD, in which case, it might be that women with PCOS would benefit from ADD meds/treatment.

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[Tiddler]

That’s interesting. My ring fingers are considerably longer than my index fingers (almost the same length as my middle finger.)

My thumbs are also very small – they only just reach the start of my index finger.

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[MariaTj]

Hi Jeannius,

I just googled pcos ‘adhd-symptoms’ and found your post. I am diagnosed with pcos since two years. At that time it was taken very lightly (both by me and by the doctor) and the doctor was only focusing on treatment with hormones in order to get my period going, which apparently decreases the higher risk of cancer that comes with not having any bleeding at all. I never really understood at that point that it could have anything to do with psychological problems.

However, a year ago I got in contact with a psychologist who though my emotional problems relates to ADHD and I have now been through an extensive ADHD-investigation for several months. All my symptoms pointed in the direction of ADHD and everyone (doctor, psychologist and psychiatrist) seemed very certain that ADHD was the problem. However, during the investigation my psychologist suggested me to test changing diets. Now, I am a skinny person and has always been, so I have never bothered about diets at all before. I have eaten healthy for most of my life, but I have never really had to care about sugar, carbs or fat. I seem to burn it all like crazy. But I agreed to do the test and during 6 weeks time I ate strict LCHF (Low Carb High Fat). Before, during and after we redid the ADHD-tests. The result was amazing. I was a totally different person! On carbs I scored bad! Bad enough to fall well below the criteria for ADHD. And we tested twice (I scored 71/126 on the first one and 50/126 on the second one. 100 is considered ‘normal average’). Without carbs I only made two mistakes and I scored 124/126 – well above avarage.

This fact made the psychiatrist to eventually not give me the ADHD-diagnos. He thinks the symptoms relate to the pcos and he thinks that I have a malfunctioning metabolism of carbs, meaning that my cells/muscles cannot use the glucos from the blood and that I basically am allergic to it. So now starts a whole new process of investigating levels of hormones, metabolism etc.

I feel really confused at this time. I don’t know what is an effect of what anymore (pcos or adhd? dopamin or insulin?) but I really hope that I will get to the root cause (I am sure it all has to do with some kind of unbalance of something). And I really think that you are on to something with your question. It’s absolutely linked somehow. Maybe there are pcos persons getting ADHD-diagnoses wrongly? Maybe a pcos person like myself actually also have ADHD, but removing carbs removes the whole fuel and just eases the symptoms. Who knows?

Long answer with no real answers….

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[daphne]

Interesting to read your post. I have PCOS and ADHD- I have developed the metabolic disorder too. Your post made a lot of sense and you have done your homework. Thank you for posting..

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[blackdog]

@MariaTj, I don’t know if @Jeannius is still around, but both of your posts raise an interesting and important question. Very informative for those who may be in the same situation.

It is all very confusing. And that’s the problem with ADHD. It’s so hard to tell what the real cause of the symptoms is, to rule out every other possible condition. Or to tell if it is a combination of more than one thing. It sounds like you went through a very extensive testing process and at least learned a little more about yourself, even if you didn’t get a definitive answer to all of your questions. I wish the doctors would always be that thorough.

The reactive hypoglycaemia is interesting. I didn’t know that could be linked to ADHD. I will have to go and do some reading on that one.I have been tested for diabetes many times due to my family history and nothing ever shows up. But I know that my blood glucose levels do drop sometimes, though they never seem to go up. I have mentioned this to my doctor but he just shrugged it off and said it’s not hypoglycaemia.

Good luck to all of you and I hope you get the answers and the treatment you need.

 

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[MariaTj]

@blackdog, @daphne, @jeannius
I was so surprised to see this thread again. I had forgotten all about it. I read through my post and I’m so happy to say that I now have some answers that have radically changed my life. I can see from my post that I was at the top of the confusion-mountain at the time, and about half a year after that post my life took a dramatic turn. I’ll take it from where the last post ended.

Spring 2012, exactly 2 years ago and short after the post, my pshyciatrist changed his mind (it wasn’t as sudden as it all sounds) and I actually had the ADHD-diagnosis. I got Concerta on a daily basis and during a few months I felt amazing! The medication made me realise how I was supposed to feel – relaxed, physically alert and in control over my mind and my emotions. However, I felt strongly that ADHD as such isn’t the root cause of anything. It’s just a diagnose of symptoms. There had to be a cause to it that I got very determined to find. I also didn’t want to be medicated for the rest of my life. So I read articles, blogs and googled for hours a day for quite a long time, but it all left me confused and I got lost in many different theories about mineral- and vitamin- insufficencies, hormonal imbalances and allergies.

Eventually I figured I needed someone to help me sort out all of this information and I found a fantastic nutritional expert (outside of the normal healthcare system, i.e. holistic/natural thinking kind of person) who seemed to know very well what he was doing, working with elite athletes as well as children with ADHD-diagnoses. The very first thing he told me when meeting me was: ‘You have to completely stop using any kind of diary-products immediately!’ I said ‘No way’, simply because I didn’t know what to replace it with. I had never gone a full day in my whole life without getting some kind of dairy product into my system. Anyway, we eventually agreed on testing a diet consisting mainly of vegetables, fruit, nuts & seeds, egg, fish or meat from cow or bird (no pig!) and seafood. I strictly excluded dairy, gluten (i.e. wheat), sugar, meat from pig, black coffee, black tea and alcohol. I avoided any kind of processed food as well.

The first week I got totally sick and had to lay in bed. I got pain in my whole body, got a cold, felt sick and everything felt awful. But after that it all changed and I started to feel amazing. The tiredness and the messiness in my head just lifted off me and my brain started to feel clear. I sent in some tests to a laboratory in Norway (Neurozym.com) and got it all confirmed from them – my body was unable to digest protein from milk – casein. When fully digested the body turns the protein into amino acids that the body can use as fuel. My body was unable to do that and the protein only got semi-digested into peptides, a substance that can go through a ‘leaky gut’ into the blood where it has the same effect as morphine. From the lab I got confirmed that I had peptides from 4 out of 5 caseines in my blood (tested from urine). To me that was mind-blowing. That was the root cause! I had a leaky gut and milk made me really sick without me ever realising.

Even more amazing than the difference I felt in my body on the new diet, was the revisit to check the status of the PCOS a few months later. During my last visit, 9 months earlier, I had a big blister that was about to burst and that now was to be re-checked. When checking me, the doctor said ‘Well, if you ever had PCOS you most certainly don’t have it anymore. You have no blisters here that would classify as unnormal’ She couldn’t even see that I had ever had a problem. I was stunned but it also confirmed the change I had felt in my body!

The healing and rebuilding of my body has been a long and hard process. It takes quite some time, willpower and energy to dramatically change the eating habits and the everyday diet. It has also costed quite some money to buy new products and nutritional supplements to heal my gut and to rebalance hormones, minerals and vitamins. However, since more than one year back I am totally off all medication (both Concerta and hormonal treatment for PCOS) and I am now feeling better healthwise than I’ve done in my whole life. I can exercise heavily without getting sick (I now run up to 20kms and aim for a Marathon as a next goal), I don’t have any mental issues anymore and I even dared to get pregnant again, having my third child in a few months, postponing the marathon quite a bit :)! And best of all, the coming baby and my two kids are now having a healthy, happy mom with lots of energy. Happy ending, huh? 🙂

I wish the best to all of you. I don’t say that milk is the rootcause for everyone with this kind of problem (ADD/ADHD), but I think that there is a certain kind of sensitivity in our minds and our systems that is more likely to get hurt from unnatural and processed food – food that is now accepted in the society as our everyday diet, such as sugar, gluten, milk and chemicals. If you think it makes any sense at all, just give the strict diet two months of your life and then take a decision based on that.
Love to all of you struggling.

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[Patte Rosebank]

That IS quite a turnaround!

It sounds like your symptoms might not have been ADHD after all, so changing your diet (with medical supervision) was just what you needed.

This is a great example of why it takes thorough physical & mental testing to properly diagnose it—to rule out everything else that might be causing the symptoms.

ADHD shares some symptoms with other mental or physical conditions, including some food sensitivities. However, ADHD is almost entirely genetic, so while eating properly can definitely help reduce those symptoms, it can’t cure ADHD.

Eating the kind of organic, natural foods you describe, is a wise choice for all of us…though, between the added expense and the need to plan ahead (instead of just grabbing any old thing when we’re hungry), it’s not easy to stick with it.

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[blackdog]

@MariaTj

LOL In typical ADD fashion, I completely missed the fact that the comment I was responding to was from 2012. 🙄

Congratulations on getting the correct diagnosis at last and turning your life around. And the new baby. 🙂

I have to admit when I started reading your post I was groaning inwardly thinking about how it’s the fashionable thing to blame everything on milk and gluten these days. But, since it turned out that really was the cause of your symptoms, it’s a good thing you got tested.

My brother tried that with his two children, going dairy free, when they were trying to figure out what was going on with them. It didn’t make a difference in their case and eventually one was diagnosed with ADHD and the other Aspergers Syndrome and they are much better now.

Now if only they could come up with an effective treatment for Lazy Teenager Syndrome…..

@Larynxa Like you said, it takes planning. That is probably the number one problem. I forget to buy the food, or forget that I did buy it, or just forget to eat… If I really had to do it, if it wasn’t a choice, then maybe it would be easier.

The psychiatrist who diagnosed my ADHD told me to give it time and just try to make one little change at a time. Which is working pretty well. Instead of trying to stick to some rigid meal plan I work on one habit at a time, like “eat protein at breakfast”. And when I got that one down, I started buying more fruit and making a habit of eating it. Now I have to work on veggies. Not my favourite food group. I’ve always been very picky about my veggies. 😛

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