ADHD and IQ? A question at the end of my ridiculously long post about symptoms.

[Anonymous]

Hi to whoever reads this,

I’m a first time poster (not the kind you hang on your wall)… lame… *crickets*

I was diagnosed with ADHD in the not too distant past. Partially, I figured it out on my own thanks to ADD and Loving it… My mom was watching it and told me to watch it and kind of chuckled. She was joking, and this is all after she had made a previous comment about my possibility of having ADHD (I’ll get to my point soon… sorry haha). I had never really thought about it before then. I’m glad that she said something, whether it was a joke or not, because I have come to realize how much ADHD has crippled my life. I’m still trying to get through the regret of all of my failures.. In relationships, I’ve never really felt like I’ve connected with too many people, although I think a million people would give you a million different descriptions of me. I’ve never REALLY had a girlfriend, but I honestly think that I’m a good looking guy (not being cocky, I’m just trying to fill you in on how my looks apparantly are no benefit to me when trying to form any kind of relationship). The things that I thought made me “me” were things that were very prominent of a disorder that I apparantly knew nothing about. Over the past couple of months, I have been falling in and out of MAJOR depressive episodes… Mixed feelings of anger, sadness, regret, have been kind of prevalent. I actually had to ask my psychiatrist (not once, but) TWICE for anti depressants, because I can 100% guarantee you that I have chronic depression… or whatever the official name is now.. What is it? Chronic Major Depressive disorder? I don’t know.

Anyways, these are things that I have dealt with my entire life. The depression has been lightening up though… I wonder how long depression can manifest, because I think I’ve had it for over 10 years. I am 22 years old. You do the math.

Which leads me to my past, which is the main reason for my topic. When I was a kid, I had EXTREME problems with organization and social skills. I tried to be friendly with the “cool” kids, but unfortunately I was deemed uncool. Looking back at this age though, I think I was happy. I remember the first day that I went to my new school when I was 9 or so. Will Smith was really big, and a few of the cool kids were sitting in a circle listening to his CD. I was amped up, and I walked over in the nerdiest way possible “woah, I love will smith. He’s awesome!” They shot me a very ugly look, and just turned away and pretended I wasn’t there. I don’t know why I gave that story, but I guess it’s because it shows some of the issues that I had with social intelligence at the time. When they turned away, I was pretty embarrassed. Any kid with common sense would have known about cliche’s and where the new kid fits in…

However, I EXCELLED in school. I’m pretty sure that I got all A’s in elementary school. Or very close to it. My teachers all loved me, and I set a prime example for everyone in the class. I was easily every teacher’s favorite student. I definitely had friends too… A lot of them. I loved elementary school, and if I could go back to that one point in my life and live those years forever, I would definitely do it. How was all of this possible for an elementary school student? I’ll get to that in a minute.

First, I just want to say that in 6th grade, the wheels came FLYING off. My mom kind of racked it up to hormones, but hell, I guess I was just plain unhappy. I never had a lot of friends in middle school.. I had some people that I liked to talk to sometimes, and I sat with the same group of people at lunch every day and all that. I don’t really know what made me change for sure.. I think it was a combination of a lot of things. First of all, social status in middle school (for me at least) was extremely prominent. Probably the most prominent that it will be for a persons life. I, quite simply, was unprepared.

Here’s why I think I was really able to function in elementary school. I was extremely happy. I had so much fun burning off all of my energy outside during recess, and then coming inside to mash my competitors in school. I really thought of elementary school as a game. I would actually try and “compete” with all of my classmates (just to show off, really). It was almost like I was on jeapordy, and I would just beat the pants off of everyone. I don’t think that I ever really studied. I don’t really know if I paid attention a lot. I think I did, because I was in an extremely structured setting, and my classmates were like family. I’ve always been a “leg jiggler” and that is definitely something that I can remember from my early years of school. I also had an EXTREMELY messy desk. And when I say extremely, I mean EXTREMELY. On parent teacher conference day, my mom pulled out a pile of papers from my desk that she had to fill up a duffell bag.

In middle school those problems became more apparant to me. I can remember a test where we were allowed to use a book (7th grade) to help us answer classes. I pretty much said “forget that” and blew through the thing as fast as I could. I didn’t do well on that one to say the least. I constantly missed school. I really just didn’t want to go. I was bored. Tired. Whatever. Obvious signs of depression, I know. I would get into fights with my mom, and I always had a lie made up about why my grades were bad. In 6th grade I experienced my first sub-B grade in anything; a D in Science. Needless to say, my mom was perplexed. We started having our first ever fights. I would fly off the handle about anything. I really thought it was hormones. And to think, if we weren’t poor, she was going to send me to a “Magnet” school. I don’t know if they have those anywhere else, but I believe it’s for children who are very smart. I’m not really sure, because I really didn’t want to go anyways, and I’m still too lazy to even google it right now haha.

Ok, meat and potatos time. And if you’re still reading, I applaud you. In High School it was more of the same. In one class I would have a B one quarter, and an F the next. I would kind of skate by, and make sure that my GPA was just high enough so that I wouldn’t get my mom (now remarried, and me now adopted by my stepdad) angry, or too disappointed. My GPA totals were this in High school…

Freshman Year: 2.48

Sophomore Year: 2.22

Junior Year: 2.92 (with a 3.8 in the first quarter of classes)

Senior year: 2.200

I graduated 65/89 in my class.

I took the ACT and got a score of 22. for anyone who’s familiar with the test, the national average is about 20. I was looking over colleges that I applied to, and they actually had the average GPA’s of the people who attended those colleges, and what grades they got on the ACT. People with a similar score to me were listed as a GPA in the 3.30 range. To me, that is extremely funny for a couple of reasons. One, I rushed on the test and did it as fast as I could, because I honestly didn’t care about the test, and I can’t really sit in one place for 4 hours to take a test that I don’t even want to do haha. Secondly, my cumulutive GPA was 2.4 in High School, and I rushed at a test and scored in the range of people who get around a 3.30.

Also, I started getting addicted to weight lifting my Junior year of high school. I got really big, really strong, really fast. People probably thought I was doing drugs because I gained about 40 pounds of muscle in 5 or 6 months. I have never EVER used anything for performance enhancing. I don’t even eat power bars or drink protein shakes. To be honest, I think that I’ve created a revolutionary workout plan.. I really do. My friend has been working out with me the past few months, and he’s packed on a lot of muscle. He weighs 145 now, and when we started, he only weighed about 135. 10 pounds of muscle looks like a LOT too. Ok, got a little sidetracked. *ahem*

I did get pretty decent (externally) at social things. Someone recently told me that I was one of the popular guys in high school, but I really didn’t perceive myself in that manner. I started drinking at 17 years old. I wouldn’t allow myself to do it that often, because I apparantly couldn’t control myself after drinking too much.

Uhm.. I actually have to post this, and then get off of here real quick, but mostly I was wondering if my case sounds familiar to anyone else. And yes, it is ADHD and not simply Depression/anxiety (although that I probably a part of it). I have trouble going to bed, staying on task etc. Squirming, desire to get up and move when I have to be sitting (aka Work). Forgetfulness, disorganization, short fuse, inability to control my emotions, procrastination, etc, etc etc.

This whole post was extremely sloppy and I apologize. I didn’t have time to proof, or make any grammatical corrections.

Real quick with college.

Freshman year, first quarter, I got a 4.0. After that, it was bouncing around between 2.2 to 2.5.

Sophomore year, same kinda deal.

Junior year, transferred schools. Decided to go to Ohio State. Got bored with the pre-requisite classes that were just repeats of my high school classes. Got angry, decided to look for another option.

Junior Year #2, Did a quarter at OSU… The last lecture I went to, I literally said to myself, if I’m not going to pay attention and even try to learn anymore, I’m not going to waste my time and money. Quit school to more or less find myself. Slipped into a massive depression. What seemed like an eternity (probably a few months at least) went by, and mom made the passing comment about ADHD. The next day, PBS aired the ADD and Loving It show. I was completely captivated. Started researching ADHD, realized that I more than fit the bill.

ADHD Time: Visited my primary care doctor. He prescribed me Concerta 27 mcg (I think that was the dosage?). This was after a month of trying Stratterra. Nothing. He said that I needed to see a psychiatrist. Looked one up. He gave me Vyvanse 50 mg (I’m 6’2″ 200 pounds). Worked for about 4 hours. Actually, I need to start writing normal again so I can describe this. Those 4 hours were absolute BLISS. Obviously I started getting angry over the short effectiveness time. Well, he then upped me to 70 mg… It seemed like it worked really well at first, but then it just started making me depressed. I mean REALLY depressed. Like EXTREMELY depressed. I told him about this, and I said that I thought the medicine was actually CAUSING me to have severe depression. He said that he had never heard of it causing depression episodes. But I know that it was, because when the medicine would wear off, I would feel back to normal. Anyways, the 50 mg worked really well, but only for about 4 hours. The 70 lasted a couple hours longer than that, and had some nasty side effects… The more I think about it, the more that I think that maybe it has something to do with my metabolism? Maybe my body digests stuff so fast, that it uses up all the medicine at once, and then just throws it away.

OK, I really have to sum this up now…

Question: Based on what you see from the grades that I posted, have you had a similar experience with school?

-Based on the pure irratic nature of my grades (from 1.75 to 4.0 in college), do you think I would gain anything from taking an IQ test. I really just don’t want to set myself up for disappointment once I get this med thing straightened out. I don’t want to get medicated, and then think that I’m a super genious, but I’m really not. I guess my point is that I’m kind of scared because I have NO clue what my abilities are. … Are people with symptoms like these generally smart?

Anyways, thank you to anyone who may have read this. I appreciate you taking the time.

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[billd]

>>… Are people with symptoms like these generally smart?<<

People with symptoms like those are generally people like in the general population.

there are those with high IQ, those with average IQ and those with low IQ.

Take a look around – almost all ADD folks here, and there’s a great cross-section of the general population here.

Low IQ doesn’t mean squat to me if the person tries, uses what skills and abilities they do posses to the best of their abilities, aren’t lazy, work hard, try to be good people, try to better themselves, etc.

I know folks with high IQs who *to me*, in my opinion, are total idiots with no common sense, lazy, and worse.

There is SO much that goes into shaping a person, making them who and what they are………

Don’t get too hung up on IQ – it’s an indicator, but not the end-all.

Find something you like, something you do well, enjoy, are good at, and do it to the very best of your abilities.

OK – after all that rant, what do you think such a test would gain you?

Self esteem? A better job?

Don’t count on it – the first comes from within, the latter comes from hard work.

And if it shows low – then what?

I know mine only because of much much testing, and years of trying to figure out what’s wrong with me. It won’t really change my life one way or another. I am who I am.

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[trashman]

WELL SAID,build

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[Anonymous]

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[Anonymous]

Hey, thanks for that.

I guess I’m just curious about it. And it seems that many of our brightest contributers to society had ADHD.. Steve Jobs is someone who I believe had undiagnosed ADHD. Einstein, Ben Franklin, Thomas Edison, etc etc. They all seem to have biographies that kind of mirror how a lot of ours have gone. The ability to think “outside” the box is something that I think people with ADHD are better at than “normal” people. And since an IQ test is largely based on the ability to solve problems in different ways, I thought it might have a positive effect on IQ test scores. Yes, I understand that hard work, determination yada yada yada. Yeah, I have worked hard at everything I’ve wanted to do. Unfortunately, I have a very very hard time staying with things after a given amount of time.. I’m getting to the point where I may want to apply to grad school when I get my undergrad. I havent taken medication long, but it seems it is helping with school a lot. I havent been on it long enough to determine how “smart” I actually am. I have been a middle of the road student because I am literally bored to tears by a general class setting. I just kind of wondered if anyone else had had a similar experience to me.. And hwmuch meds helped them. The IQ score I was mainly thinking could be helpful in that I dont really have any kind of bench mark as to wheremu limits stand as intelligence goes.. I didnt want to apply to grad school and waste money if I had like a false sense of intelligence or something..

And Billd, I sense that you have a condescending tone to your post. I was’t trying to offend anyone, I was just hoping that people with ADHD had an inherently higher IQ. Just for piece of mind I guess. Idk. Take it how you want, but I wasnt “ranting,” I was just trying to share my story and ask some questions. But jeez, I apparantly dont fit anywhere. I’m probably just lazy. I’ll just drop the whole ADHD thing and stop taking meds or whatever. I’ll just try harder.

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[Anonymous]

As Bill said, ADHD sufferers have IQs exactly like the general population – some high, most mid range, and some low. If you are bored in a general class setting, it could be that you have a high IQ, or it could be your ADHD, or it could be both, or it could be low IQ even. If medications are helping, then you might get a better idea about where you stand regarding IQ, but if you want testing, then investigate it. I know that it can cost a small fortune, but thorough ADHD testing can sometimes include IQ testing as part of it, as my son’s did – which was certainly expensive!! Regardless, having a high IQ is of no use if you are unable to use it. My son has a high average IQ, and has failed subjects due to features of his ADHD, such as having difficulty concentrating, poor time management, and losing his homework.

By the way, Strattera should be tried for over 6 weeks, before deciding to discontinue. It can take that long to have any effect, and it MUST be taken every day also. So maybe you should think about looking into a doctor who has more experience treating ADHD.

Another compounding feature is your depression. It can cause symptoms similar to ADHD, so it may be worth treating the depression first, until it is under control, then looking at whether ADHD symptoms are still present, although it can work the other way too, with ADHD causing depression. Probably the best way is to decide which is afffecting your life the most and treat that first. Maybe a visit to a psychiatrist, or some other specialist, might help shed some light on the matter. Some antidepressants can help ADHD symptoms also.

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[Anonymous]

Skyrim,

ADHD, High IQ, Major Depression, Anxiety. These are all just labels, and don’t mean much. An IQ test looks at how fast you can take in information, and then regurgitate it. For that reason, IQ tests are actually good for people with ADD/ADHA because it each question a short amount of attention, which we have a tough time controlling. There are plenty of online IQ test, but I’d stay away from those. I fact I would stay away from all IQ tests. I would focus on dealing with your ADHD, either through medication, self control, or both, and then focus on school, or your career.

I have a “high” IQ, but I barely got through college with a 2.5 GPA. One thing you have to keep in mind is that in real life you have to be able to work on long, medium and short term projects, keep schedules and appointments, complete tasks, and be organized. An IQ test will not help you with any of that. Only personal effort will.

I’m a manager now in an engineering department at my company, and when I have to hire people, I don’t look at IQs, or GPAs. I look for organization skills, and a genuine interest in our field of study. I’ve hired people with 2.5 GPAs that are better employees than ones with 3.8s.

What I’m trying to say is, focus on you, and not the labels other people put on you. And when I read your story, I felt like I read my life story. Good luck, and feel free to get ahold of me if you need to talk.

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[billd]

>>And Billd, I sense that you have a condescending tone to your post. I was’t trying to offend anyone, I<<

Nope – not at all. 3 things

1. Trying to get folks to not get hung up on it –

2. Trying to get folks to stop listing to the urban legends (and stop labelling past people who acheived highly with ADD when there is no proof, and further, there are just as many who had no signs of ADD – it’s one of those things someone came up with to make us feel better I suspect)

3. Playing devil’s advocate………….

>>The IQ score I was mainly thinking could be helpful in that I dont really have any kind of bench mark as to wheremu limits stand as intelligence goes.. <<

No – it won’t indicate limits of intelligence at all…… for most jobs you really need to totally ignore it. I’ve got a very high IQ it seems, however, I have limits. I could never do some of the jobs some other folks do as I just “don’t get it” on those areas.

I’ve tried and tried and tried to learn computer programming in something such as C# for example, or SQL commands. I get totally lost. I’ve read, I’ve taken classes, I’ve practiced, I even had a programmer friend work with me one-on-one, and finally said forget it.

That’s but one example of where IQ didn’t help me a bit – there are many others.

I guess what I’m saying is that high IQ does not guarantee that you could do any job or learn any thing. (just as low IQ doesn’t mean there aren’t some complex jobs you’d not be able to do) A whole lot of “average” IQ people get a perfect GPA. A whole lot have successful careers. My fear is that if you tested and were disappointed, you might not try things you otherwise would try for fear of failing. Or a high score might mean you stop trying as hard, or make incorrect assumptions the other way.

Don’t get caught in a trap over a number.

I have a bad feeling that “ADD advocates” are trying to list a whole lot of historical figures as having had ADD to bring us up, and motivate, or for whatever motive, when there is no proof one way or another they had ADD, and they are leaving out all the ADD folks who fail for whatever reason, or all the non-ADD folks who were actually better.

One of my favorite success stories is a person who was a great inventor, he actually invented radio before Marconi, and had many other brilliant successes including automotive ignition systems, X-rays, just a whole list of things (but was forgotten by history for the most part) and having studied him in great detail – I can’t see any sign at all of ADD – – Sir Oliver Lodge.

For every great thinker, every great inventor, every great historical figure which some folks claim had ADD, there are as many if not more who did not.

My tip – even if it hurts – drop the IQ focusing, get properly diagnosed for ADD – prove it or disprove it. In doing so, you’ll also be tested for various skills, personality traits, and possible other causes for ADD symptoms. That’s a FAR better use of time than an IQ test – it will tell you much more about yourself and your abilities than an IQ test will.

An IQ test sure didn’t tell me a thing about what I’d be good or bad at, or what sort of thinking I did. However, 4.5 hours with a neuro-psychologist told me a TON of things about my abilities, my weak spots, and even made me think more about future directions. Something a number could never do.

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[trashman]

I have a low to normal IQ this really has nothing to do with my adhd.it has everything to do with the fact that when I was born and was both breach and blue, from a hard birth. these are some of the things that cause this for me . some of my siblings are very smart.

to tell the truth I think we might have all been a bit brighter if we would not have been raised in a poor adhd old fashioned home .how a person is raised I think has al lot to do with ones learning processes. so looking at the big picture many factors effect one I Q, even when it is high or lower effected during ones upbringing.I was always taught if you don’t work you don’t eat. so in my upbringing a male was to work with his hands or was looked upon as lazy if he did not . to prove my point is that out of six boys none finished high school. yet all three girls went on to get a degree after high school.

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[Just_Nemo]

Common sense is what people really need, I have an high IQ but it is useless if others have no common sense.

I can blow your mind with what I kno…OOW CUTE KITTTY!!!! ^-^

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[quizzical]

Skyrim,

In answer to your questions, I’m one who’s had a similar experience with grades, especially with the elementary-school-a-breeze and then hitting the wall in junior high. Overall I continued to do well, but there were some blips, bumps, and a couple of major problems at various points along the way.

I do think the up-and-down academic performance is something a lot of folks with ADD experience.

My thoughts about your other question, should you take an IQ test? I can’t speak to the accuracy of IQ tests, so let’s assume they do indeed measure intelligence.

It depends on what you want to do with the information. Are you thinking about going back to school? Would a high score on an IQ test help you make that decision? Are you frustrated because your grades don’t match the abilities you sense you have, and hoping a high IQ score will give you some numerical proof that you’ve got the goods? Are you in doubt about your ADHD diagnosis and wondering if demonstrating a high IQ would prove that your poor grades were due to ADHD? Would a high IQ score buoy your confidence?

No right or wrong answers to the above, just things to consider that might help you decide if the IQ information is useful at this stage.

Are you seeing only your primary care doctor for your ADHD treatment? You might want to look into seeing a psychologist as a complement to your medication treatment. Sounds like you’re at a bit of a crossroads and professional counseling might help you sort things out a bit more thoroughly.

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[billd]

>>You might want to look into seeing a psychologist as a complement to your medication treatment. Sounds like you’re at a bit of a crossroads and professional counseling might help you sort things out a bit more thoroughly. <<

x2

And that’s meant to be HELPFUL…………. not a judgment.

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[billd]

Where? Where’s the kitty??

trashman – it’s not the IQ that makes you likely to be a friend or a good person or not……. it’s what is inside of you, how you present yourself, and what you do with your life, how hard you work at it………..

I see nothing here to indicate that you wouldn’t be a nice person.

I know a few folks with very high IQs that I can’t stand being around. (and a couple of ’em have 0 common sense)

It’s simply one part of the equation –

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[Tiddler]

As someone who deals with the problems associated with high IQ on a daily basis, I’d say it’s not all it’s cracked up to be.

Children with high IQ often have asynchronous development which can be extreme enough to be misdiagnosed as ADHD or asperger’s among other problems. They are likely to have what Dabrowski calls ‘over excitabilities’ that can cause emotional outbursts, inability to cope with bright lights or loud noises or the endless quest for answers to the big questions.

If ADHD can be lonely in the playground, imagine the torment of an ADD kid with a 170 IQ. How do you connect with your ‘peers’ then? Who wants to be your friend? Some kids in this situation can be very compelling playmates but more often they’re isolated with no-one who can understand them. And what exactly do they do in mainstream lessons? It’s hard enough to ‘concentrate’ when you’re bored, never mind bored to that level!

Being clever is obviously a bonus in many situations, but it’s a small part of what can make someone successful and, like anything, the extremes can be damaging.

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[billd]

Tiddler – thank you very much! Well said – you have somehow described me. That school psychologist all those years ago who had me tested alluded to much of what you say………. when he asked my mother “doesn’t it scare you”………. he was meaning much of what you said.

I have real trouble with people who “don’t get it” or have REAL problems when I can’t get the answers to the big complex questions I have – and most folks can’t even understand the question!

Few wanted to be my friend – some did, but because it was handy to have me around to help them in school, figure things out for them.Sometimes I think I was a “friend” of others because they found me handy, not so much because of me.

It’s hard to soar with the eagles when surrounded by turkeys fits so well. When you can out-think EVERYONE around you – you know more than your boss, can see things they can’t see, and even end up correcting your team leaders in complex network issues – things THEY have training and certifications in, you come in and see issues and mistakes – good luck convincing them!

I literally face it every day – and am facing it again today, unfortunately. We had to open up bids for VPN software for our agency. I set up a list of criteria it must meet. We got 2 bids. One I expected (and hoped for) and another company that submitted a bid – not for VPN software but for remote control software! Not the same, apples and lemons. It’s not even VPN software, but the boss doesn’t fully understand – if it’s not VPN and can’t fill our needs, then why did they submit the bid?

I want to answer “because they assume someone like you will accept it anyway” but I’m resisting LOL!

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[Author]

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