OK, I'm having some trouble getting my head around this concept: "Disorder"

[Gary]

OK, I’m having some trouble getting my head around this concept: “Disorder” as compared to…???

I take my med’s every day so that I can stay centered on what I’m supposed to be doing, but I totally dislike having to take something I feel limits me just to conform to someone else’s standard. On one hand I realize I don’t function like “normies”, but because I fall outside (way) the arbitrary range representing this idea of a norm, the assumption is I’m somehow flawed.

I can absolutely own the idea of being “abnormal”, but the presumption that “they” are the arbiters of the standard, and thus get to tell me what those standards are, is something I’m less willing to accept as time goes on.

I feel those of us with this exceptional gift sometimes get sucked, or buy into, the idea that our approach is somehow wrong or inferior because it doesn’t conform to how it “should” be done, and I’m starting to resent the assumption they represent the norm- and thus “order” just ’cause there’s more of them.

Don’t get me wrong, I start my day with about a zillion things I need want to get done- great intentions! What started out as this great multitasking adventure has, by the end of the day,turned into a Chinese fireworks display – lot’sa chaotic sparkly flash-booms, all in different colors and going different directions- ending in a fading twinkle.

But…

within all that chaos are elements of unique brilliance:

I’ve come up with a way to see a problem no one has seen before

I’ve envisioned a process to automate, increase efficiency, organize (!?!?) a project

I’ve created this way cool/fantastic/awesome “thingamabob” in my workshop

I’ve redecorated the entire living room -in my head-…3 times

I’ve figured out why my car makes that clunking sound -the one the mechanic couldn’t find.

While I understand the need for, and efficiency of, standards in certain things as:

Language- words need to have standard meanings, sentences need to conform to a basic structure

Materials- steel of a certain grade should have standard characteristics, a bottle of pills should all be identical in what and how much they contain

Construction- if you’re building a wall, all the boards should probably be the same thickness and length

That shouldn’t dictate how the end product has to look -as long as it answers the need.

We all, ADHD and normies alike, have our gifts as well as challenges.

I’d love to hear what others think.

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[billd]

I wish I could shed this ADHD. It’s caused my to lose or leave jobs, had nothing but trouble in school, and am only half of what I could be or could have been.

If you believe it’s a gift and love living with it, great, go for it. But for me, at age 54, it SUCKS HUGE.

Me, I’m brilliant simply because I am, inspite of ADHD. It’s not BECAUSE of ADHD I can do all these things, or fix literally anything from a car to airplane, to rewiring a house, to replumbing a house, to designing computer networks, to board-level repair of notebooks, creative fixing, etc – it’s not because of ADHD, it’s in spite of. I could hold a MUCH better job, be organized, do 3 times what I do now, get things done in time, and not piss off so many people, I’d keep friends, etc.

If you had it as bad as I do – and I’m pretty much to the max, and have lost as much as I’ve lost because of it, you might see it differently. It’s only because I have a very high IQ and am a natural born trouble-shooter that I’ve survived this long and done as well as I’ve done.

I’ve give a lot to be rid of this affliction – but for now, I have to hope that some brilliant doctor finds something that will help me focus, help me meet deadlines, not throttle the boss for being such an idiot, and not being so dam honest in meetings.

3rd magic pill this year – and other than a buzz, I guess I can’t see an improvement.

So far, I’ve been smarter than most doctors I’ve seen! LOL – and that’s not a joke.

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[Anonymous]

I agree with you billd. I try hard not to dwell on where I could have been if I had been able to concentrate on my schooling and stick with one thing long enough to be good at it. I got over 80% for many of my subjects, despite rarely revising things, being a shocking essay writer and not handing in all of my homework. How much different could it have been if I had done ALL of my work, and studied like the others in my class?! As one of my family said, there are many people out there who have the potential to be a genius, but without motivation to accompany the intelligence, it means nothing.

My biggest asset is that I like to find the fun in life, but that is just my personality, not any medical condition. It’s the one thing that has kept me sane. The only ADHD trait which can help life along somewhat, is the inability to focus much on the past or the future, as it can prevent a person from being bogged down in their mistakes and failures (probably why many of us can laugh so much at our past mistakes), but it also is a trait that causes endless grief, as everything ends up being accomplished in a last minute rush, and the future isn’t planned for appropriately.

I do understand where you are coming from though, Gary. To be realistic, everybody is somewhere on a spectrum of existence, with some having more “autistic” traits than others, and some having more “ADHD” traits than others, and so forth. So everyone should be considered “normal” but with behaviours/strengths/weaknesses being catered to within schools and work places, rather than labelling the behaviours into a disorder that needs to be treated a specific way. Labels cause people to pre-judge others, based on their experiences with others with the same label. Which is not fair in the least. Everybody is different, and should be treated as an individual.

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[Bibliophile]

I hear where you are coming from, Gary. However, we have to make money in this world of “normies” and that means holding down a job. This entails following “their” standards and accepted work habits. We cannot do that without help. If you can find employment in a way that you can function effectively and not require meds or other aids, I commend you. I have not been able to do so. My talents lie in areas where I have to work in an office environment. I am able to be creative in that realm, but must conform to the standards of that office to stay employed there, which is very difficult.

Like Bild, I have lost jobs due to my executive function deficits, especially my impulsivity and temper. I have missed opportunities because of these as well that have led to much regret in my life.

Gary, do not make the assumption that starting a million things is the same thing as creative. What makes you creative is how you tackle these tasks and what you do, not the need to start them. What makes you creative are your natural talents and interests. Exploit those. It is important to recognize what we are gifted at so that we can work around our deficits. Finding a setting that works for you is equally important. I work very independently, but in a small office of equals, which, while not ideal, allows much freedom that would not be available in a traditional office setting.

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[billd]

I’ll respond to some of the points directly ->

within all that chaos are elements of unique brilliance:

I’ve come up with a way to see a problem no one has seen before

And you could not have without ADD? Bet you could! If ordinary folks could not, the US patent office might as well go out of business. Ordinary non-ADD folks do this a lot. I could – because I inherited that bit from my family/ancestors.

I’ve envisioned a process to automate, increase efficiency, organize (!?!?) a project

Again, see above – are you SURE – DEAD certain you could not otherwise have done so? My wife does that sort of thing at work all the time – no ADD there.

I’ve created this way cool/fantastic/awesome “thingamabob” in my workshop

I’ve redecorated the entire living room -in my head-…3 times

LOL – I’d say that you could look to most women and find that “feature”. (unfortunately, it translates later into “honey……”

I’ve figured out why my car makes that clunking sound -the one the mechanic couldn’t find.

This is a HUGE laugh – as a professional degreed auto tech – that’s pretty much meaningless. You should see the discussions in our forum on auto repairs and “so-called mechanics” screwing up all the time. At times, the poor folks have had their car to 2 or 3 people, and some forum member solves the issue with a couple of posts. I’d honestly not put any stock in that. I quit that field a while back because the people who put themselves out as mechanics were usually nothing more than shade-tree wanna-be’s. I have very very little faith in “mechanics”. I used to be one – and I was the best in this state, got the trophy to prove it, along with some other papers. (and a 0 comeback rating in the shop I worked at, plus the phone call from the biggest Jeep dealership in the midwest offering me a job as the service manager – based only on my reputation)

I’ll put it this way – yeah, some folks get that out of having ADD – but I also know a lot of non-ADD folks who have those “skills” and abilities.

Multi-tasking? No, you don’t. You time-slice. and people who try multitasking actually do a WORSE job on each task the more they add beyond 2. ADD folks are worse – as each task is more likely to fail, and less likely to be remembered properly.

I can point to a number of studies debunking the myth of multi-tasking. It’s a management myth.

I agree with this statement:

>>My biggest asset is that I like to find the fun in life, but that is just my personality, not any medical condition<<

and doctors are always in disbelief when they ask if I drink, smoke or do drugs. My reply is pretty much the above – no, I get high on just living. Anything else like drugs and alcohol would interfere with that. When I say “maybe 5 or 6 beers a year”, they can’t believe it. When I say “never” to drug use, they ask again, are you SURE….

Yes, I’m sure. If it ain’t prescription, it don’t go in, unless it’s OTC, then i research it.

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[Anonymous]

My doc offered me a referral to either a doc for antidepressants and CBT, or a doc for an ADHD assessment and stimulants (as he is sure that I would be assessed as ADHD, but I also have anxiety issues which could be helped with some of the antidepressants). I went for his preference of psychoanalysis, but plan to be referred on also for a stimulant trial – and I only picked the stimulants because thay are short acting and I can take them only every now and then, but the antidepressants have to be taken every day, and they “flatten out” people’s mood. And I don’t want my mood altered. I am not depressed, so that doesn’t need dampening down, but I do enjoy life and the emotions that go with it, so I really don’t want any medication that dampens the highs in my life (or the lows either, for that matter).

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[wolfshades]

I’m with Gary on this one. Maybe it differs from person to person……

The thing is, many creative types are lucky enough to figure it out early in life (most without being diagnosed) and end up pursuing careers that fit their ADHD thought patterns. We got lost in the particulars, but are somehow pretty great at coming up with the initial ideas. I’ve begun to even trust the fact that while I may not be thinking about a problem, there’s a part of my brain that is still working on it subconsciously. I know this because all of a sudden the solution will hit me out of the blue, and that’s when I realized that I never stopped thinking about it.

Many comedians and actors have had ADHD, and I know that my own forays into that field have yielded some pretty cool results, especially within the area of improv comedy. And yes, I do attribute it to ADHD – which by the way I consider to be *part* of my personality as well – in that, the ideas will just come to me, while I’m supposed to be working on something else. It’s what causes me to blurt out stuff in the middle of a boring meeting at work, and most of the time people look at me, slightly stunned before going off into laughter. It’s fun, and I embrace that part of the ADHD essence – now that I know what it is and have finally been diagnosed.

To be sure though, like many here, it has served as a detriment as well. I did lousy in a lot of school stuff because of it. Like so many here, I learned and adapted throughout life (without knowledge of my ADHD) in order to fit in where I could. I couldn’t seem to study as other normal people could, so I found workarounds, and learned that imminent deadlines helped me to hyper focus (with my heart racing). I also learned to “fake it” at work: delegating work that I knew I’d never complete, or avoiding assignments where failure was assured.

I recognize that I’m quickly drawn to stuff that interests me, which often don’t actually serve me at the moment. The corollary to that is that I lose interest fast when there’s even a hint of boredom and drudgery. As Rick and Dr. J have mentioned: the key to managing some of the stuff that we suck at in life is to get the proper tools and get the help we need. Coaching is a good idea, as is (if we’re making enough money) assistants to deal with the mundane stuff. Entrepreneurs with ADHD have learned this very well (I know, having spoken to some): they surround themselves with people whose abilities shine where an person with ADHD will not. If we’re lucky, we end up with wives or husbands who are one of the “normies”.

Having said that, I truly enjoy the “bright shiny balls of thought” that flip around in my head sometimes, distracting me with their wonder. In this, I embrace ADHD as a friend, rather than just a “disorder”.

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[Tiddler]

Disorder is exactly the right word for it in my opinion.

Lots of people without ADHD are divergent thinkers – most gifted people included. Lots of people have flashes of great inspiration. That’s not caused by ADHD either.

I’m glad you see it as an ‘exceptional gift’ but not all of us who have it consider it to be a gift.

I have a highly gifted child. He’s extraordinary in the way he thinks. But that’s no gift either. His unique way of thinking creates problems at school, problems with socialising and problems having to conform. But what is holding him back isn’t the giftedness – its his memory and visual attention problems which are likely to be ADHD based. It is holding back a wonderful, brilliant mind and it’s so hard to see.

I have MENSA level IQ too. Can I use it? Not well. I forget everything I learn. I can’t stay on a project for any length of time. I’ve never been in a job more than 3 years. I have really exciting, interesting, innovative ideas that never go anywhere.

Last week I lost:

My coat

My son’s coat

My new mobile phone

My forms to fill in for help at uni. AGAIN.

and my way home – 5 hours for a 90 minute journey.

I also broke my cashcard (the one I had just replaced because I lost the last one, and my husband’s and locked another because I forgot the pin number.

I could go on but it’s just too depressing to write it all down.

So do call it a gift in your case. I think that’s marvellous. But, just for now, I’d rather not hear people refer to people with adhd as ‘those of us with this exceptional gift’.

This exceptional gift can go fuck right off. I dont’ want it.

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[wolfshades]

“This exceptional gift can go fuck right off. I dont’ want it.” I hear you. The sad thing is: it won’t, obviously. I know that I’m no where near where I could have been in life, had I been born without ADHD. And neither is my daughter, who is very bright but just as scattered as I am. She too did lousy at school, and has flitted from job to job.

Since we’re stuck with it, it just seems to me that we’re better off finding ways to make it work to our advantage if we can. I think if I were to dwell on the fact that I didn’t get the diagnosis until just a few years ago, and struggled all through life thinking there was something wrong with me (lazy, incompetent, borderline candidate for Alzheimer’s) I’d fall into depression. Having gone down that road before – to the point of almost doing the unthinkable – I’d rather not visit it again. Took quite a bit of therapy to come out of that dark place.

Seems to me that most of us are round pegs trying hard to fit into square holes. The good news is (at least for me) there are actually places in this world that serve as round holes. Like anything else, I view this as an opportunity to play to my strengths.

I’m no pollyanna. Far FAR from it. Not everyone can make the changes necessary to fit better. Not everyone has the monetary resources even to get diagnosed, much less get counselling or coaching. But I think we do have the ability to make choices where and when we can. If we’re lucky enough – as I am – we can find those places where such bright thoughts can work to our advantage.

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[caper]

@tiddler: I chuckled when I read the last line of your post.

When you stop feeling frustrated about the “is it a gift discussion”, check this out:

http://addralph.blogspot.com/2011/10/is-adhd-gift-or-curse.html

Personally I like the buddhist perspective: If it is something you can change, then you need not suffer. If it is something you cannot change, then you need not suffer.

It might sound cold (I’m no better at empathy than I am at remembering where I left my cordless drill!), but it sounds like you are suffering over the “what could have been”.

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[caper]

@Gary: I choose when I take my ADHD medication. Sometimes I take it when I don’t really want to, but I choose to because I have no better alternative. I’ll take a twist on Barkley’s prosthesis analogy to explain how I see it. When I broke my ankle, I didn’t want to use crutches, but I often chose to. Sometimes I’d hobble/walk if it was just a few steps, but most times I’d use my crutches. I could have chose to hop on one leg, or push through the pain of limping on it. My shoulders got tired and my armpits got chaffed, however I still got to move from A to B.

I didn’t get much pressure to use my crutches and (so far) I don’t get any pressure to take my medication. I think I understand the issue of feeling pressured — directly or even indirectly by societal expectations. Gathering the willpower to stand up and say, “It’s my body and I choose what I do to it” will help you in a lot more situations than when you feel pressured to pop a pill in your mouth.

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[Tiddler]

Thanks.

I’m actually suffering from the ‘what is’ at the moment. I can’t seem to do anything right, even simple things like shopping. I’m worse than I have ever been since I found out because the anxiety that kept me going has gone.

And finding out means shit here because my doctor can’t (won’t?) medicate me and I’m on a 6 month waiting list to see someone that, may or may not be able to help. I can’t afford to go private because I don’t have regular work.

So, right at the minute, I think I’m in what the call the anger stage…

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[billd]

Tiddler I can SO relate to your post above this last one. Sounds so familiar.

I sometimes look at it this way – and I’ve told my doctor this:

If you have a chronic back pain that prevents you from doing the work you enjoy or want to do, causes you to miss out on fun things, or causes relationship issues for various reasons and for years everyone said “we can’t help chronic pain – live with it, adapt and deal”, then suddenly you see a bit where folks are talking about how to solve that pain – make it less painful, and restore at least parts of your life – would you not look into it? Go for it?

Tiddler you were SO describing ME!! You Almost could be watching me right now as much as you know about me.

ARE we stuck with it? All of it at all times? No. I refuse to believe we are stuck with it.

From what I have heard my whole life, and even recently at the neuro-psych office – I’m “brilliant” – in the superior range with problem solving skills. And ya know what – he said that is ME, not the ADHD – the ADHD is why I never became a Senator, or a CEO of GM or Ford, or a Donald Trump.

Ya know what – I see light at the end of the tunnel – if folks just keep supporting me, and sticking with me – I’ll get there. I might be 60 before it happens, but by golly the last few years I’m going to blow a few of the naysayers away. Watch for me.

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[Tiddler]

Damn right, bill. I’ll be watching for you!

And thanks. That was just exactly what I needed to hear.

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[Anonymous]

I don’t see ADHD as any kind of benefit. Kind of agree with Tiddler. I had blackouts weekly, for about 14 years, kind of cut into driving and working. Eventually, mid-1990’s, an Internist figured out what Toronto’s Cardiologists couldn’t. I had an irregular heartbeat, 15 minutes of ablasion in London, Ontario and it was gone. No more blackouts, I could safely and sanely consider driving and with some luck working regularly without collapsing on the Trading Floor at the TSE. I don’t complain too much, people died from irregular heart beats, because medics had no clue what to do, until someone came up with ablasion treatments. I would truly love to have my ADHD burned out, ripped out and stomped into the floor, but that’s just my cronic anger and anxiety, side bennies of ADHD it would appear.

Long story short. I am on drugs that almost allow me to function. I would gladly rip the dam ADHD out myself, if it were that sort of thing … soo angry. There is a further irony, BC seems to feel that ADHD is not a disability, or even something worthy of drug discounts, so I get to pay a great deal of money to counter some of the nastier side of my ADHD .. it pisses me off some days.

Othewise, I am happy to find that weaving focuses me in the moment, which seems to be what my kind of ADHD needs most.

It is a very subjective experience, and if I hadn’t grown up with the constant badgering of “could do better if only he focussed” and

similar remarks through what passed for schooling and parenting in Toronto a few decades ago, I might feel more kindly towards

ADHD than I do now. It is what it is. I guess we react to it as individuals, some may adapt more readily than others.

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[Author]

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