Pshychoanalysis anyone?

[Anonymous]

For me…….. “the question is always”…..am I happy and content with myself and my life? My answer is, yes.

I’m still ADD……it didn’t go away!!

I guess could attempt to rationalize my years in counseling or therapy but…..as I understand it people tend to rationalize many things, for a myriad of reasons….the definition of rationalization being,” the cognitive process of making something seem consistent with or based on reason”.

It took me years to quit doing that, I was great at it, the best……………….I’m happier now.

Toofat

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[Anonymous]

In my nursing career, I have seen too many examples of the mind influencing the body to dismiss the psychoanalytical perspective out of hand. The worst case was a woman who was totally paralysed, BUT she still had reflexes – if you threw something at her, she would put her arms up in defense. There is no biological explanation for a disorder that causes paralysis but still allows such reflexive movements (beyond the basic plantar reflex and a few other very primitive reflexes). And there are the dying people who do not die until they have seen a particular person, or witnessed an event they have been looking forward to. Or the opposite, where a healthy person basically grieves themselves to death, even though their nutrition is maintained and there is no medical cause for their death.

In my research into psychoanalysis, I have even come across two cases of ADHD where the patients were no longer plagued by their worst symptoms after undergoing psychoanalysis. One was in a research study, and was a child who ended up not meeting the criteria for ADHD after treatment was complete, and the other was the story of a doctor who found that multimodal treatment (medication initially, and backed up by CBT and psychoanalysis) reduced his symptoms to such a manageable level that he began to wonder if he would still meet the DSM criteria for an ADHD diagnosis after all his treatments yielded their results. He stopped his medication early in the piece, after the initial “crisis” was over and therapy had begun to show positive results.

So it begs me to ask, what if my anxieties are compounding my ADHD symptoms and therapy can improve things from that perspective? What if therapy can help me see my dysfunctional methods of coping and thus reduce my reliance on them in the future? Personally, I don’t believe that my childhood was bad enough that I developed enough dysfunctional coping mechanisms to result in ADHD symptoms, so I need to learn to accept that this is who I am, but I also believe that the stresses I was under at certain times in my life could well have had a detrimental effect on my symptoms. I just need to look at the effect that 10 minutes of therapy had on me to see that I need to revisit and resolve some things from my past. But maybe, in the long run, I just want the contentment that “toofat” has.

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[Anonymous]

@ bibliophile – the therapy sessions in no way discuss my symptoms, or examine the way my brain works. I am asked to talk about my life – the first thing that comes into my head if possible. It’s all about re-examining all the painful events in your life, and how you coped with them, and felt about them. Defence mechanisms are pointed out by the therapist when they occur, and you are forced to pull your defences down and examine the “real you”. The “you” that hated your mother for something she did, or resented a sibling just for being young enough to take attention away from you. The guilt for not telling anyone about somthing important, or finally facing up to an addiction of some sort.

Having your mind go blank is a sign of avoidance, which certainly happened to me initially. But then I just blurted out the first thing that cropped into my mind, and the doc made a few guiding remarks to help me see my “defenses” kicking in when the topic became too threatening for me to want to deal with. It’s very confronting, but I can see where it will allow me to move on eventually. Many of the ADHD symptoms can also be caused by the mind’s way of dealing with conflict, so not everybody diagnosed with ADHD will have no improvement of their symptoms via therapy.

@ toofat – thank you for keeping involved in this thread. Your attitude and self-acceptance are what keeps me going right now. I very much want that for myself, though I have come to terms with the fact that I probably need more than just therapy for now, as I am heading into that nasty place of confronting and rehashing and digging at wounds I’d rather pretend weren’t there. The resultant escalation of “ADHDness” after only a short bout of therapy has convinced me that I cannot do this without pharmaceutical support. It is too dangerous, and impacts my whole ability to function. So I am all for multimodal treatment!

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[Anonymous]

Me again (sigh!)

@ toofat – do you recall how long the dark times went on for, before you really began seeing the light at the end of the tunnel? At the moment it seems like it is just the beginning of what is going to be very dark and tormented times, and there certainly seems like there is not an end in sight right now. I accept that this is just the beginning of treatment, but it’s so offputting to imagine each therapy session ending in such emotional turmoil and inability to function beyond the bare necessities. I was really not in a good place, mentally, for 24 hours after the appointment. It’s almost enough to justify quitting, but for just once in my life, I want to see something through to the end!

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[Anonymous]

Well it was quite a few years ago KrazyKat, but I remember it as at least quite a few months of tough going, but that was me. It was not a constant darkness though, it is more tumultuous, unsettling, than dark…it’s kinda hard to describe. There are so many variables. I would go from enlightened elation, to turmoil, anger, and at times despair…sometimes all in one day, one session maybe. What a wonderful ride.

If I recall appropriately….as issues or challenges would arise or be uncovered, the resulting turmoil was maybe dependent on my resistance, my struggle, and how strong a hold I had on the issue, or my flawed belief related to it, and or, how resistive I was to awakening, and truly embracing the changes I needed to make. I had issues around my relationship as well, which I already had considerable angst about, so my work as layered, crazy, but……it was fun too. I know that sounds rather MAD, but I did love every minute of it!!

So, Kat, no, it was not all dark, not by any means. As I said, the giddy enlightenment and discovery was exhilarating to say the least, it was heady times for sure. Laugh, wonderment, crying, silence……..I ran the gamut. I was ready and charged for this work, or adventure, I needed it to happen.

I recognize it can be very exhausting too, but it is an exhaustion that has an underlying strength and positive aspect or flow to it, I could feel the positive displacement. I know I’m fumbling this terribly and I’m sorry for that…….it is just so hard to explain!!!

Anyway, I would encourage anybody entering into this challenge to find and engage a support group (4 to 6 people is a good size), it really helped me though a lot of my therapy. I found the counseling sessions left me wanting more, I was ready for more by the time the next day rolled around….. to feel more, to speak more, to listen more……more more more. A support group facilitated that need to share, listen and grow, I was voracious.

Remember KK…fear is just fear, nothing more.

Toofat

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[Anonymous]

Thank you, Toofat, you may have felt as if you struggled to explain, but what you wrote made perfect sense to me. I guess, deep down, there must be something keeping me from quitting right now. Maybe because I can see/feel a need, or maybe because there has been some unrecognised satisfaction with the process so far. I just don’t know myself well enough yet in order to be able to say.

I am glad you didn’t find it all dark and confusing. It’s probably what scares me the most about the whole process – that it will be one long, miserable ride. And even after the first visit, I felt the need for extra support, and can see your suggestion of a support group as a valid one. What sort though? There are ADHD support groups around, but I am not sure where to look to find other forms of support groups that may be more appropriate.

I am seriously considering looking into a change of therapist though. I sort of feel “judged” on the basis of my decision to seek medication for the short term treatment of my more serious symptoms, and I don’t know if I can completely open up when I feel that way. It was also frustrating to have him want to set an appointment for the same time each week, despite assuring me that my shift work could be worked around and would not be an issue. Having to specify a set time was really stressful, and did not give me the opportunity to select appointment times that would benefit me the most. Anyway, we’ll see.

Kat

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[Shadow Nexus]

When I could get it for free in college, it really helped through many different issues. I’m been out of school for about 10 years. So, it’s not free, been unable to get it. I’m been researching free in-person mental help. Not much success, I have some leads.

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[Anonymous]

Yeah, it sucks to have to consider the money side of things when you are looking at getting yourself healthy (be it mind or body). I am lucky to live in a place where I can get relatively affordable care for some things – incidentally, my psychiatrist is heaps cheaper than the psychologist my kids saw!! It’s also cheaper to see my psychiatrist every week than it is to pay for weekly music lessons. I have looked into maybe seeing a psychologist for an ADHD assessment, as they seem to have shorter waiting lists, but the cost is offputting, and then I still have to see a psychiatrist for medications anyway. Also, I have gone over my benefit allowance for psychology services (due to my involvement in my kids’ treatments), so I would have to pay full cost 😯

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[Anonymous]

Hmmmm KK…what kind of support group? My thoughts on a support groups (for me) are like this. I prefer small numbers, no less than 4 but no more than 8 people. Smaller group numbers allow everybody an opportunity to speak if they wish, but doesn’t take all night to get everybody. I prefer anonymous and regular scheduled meets (1) week, in a safe environment, that is free of any interruption from the outside. There should be some control or limit on the time people are allowed to share uninterrupted, some folks will talk all night if left unchecked!! Importantly for me was, feedback should be provided ONLY at request of the speaker.

I did not need an ADD specific group. my feelings are, it maybe it’s better if it isn’t, there not so many preconceived notions floating around, it is a more rounded environment. After all I didn’t go to fix anybody, I went for the sharing process. There are many religious communities or organizations that have support groups available to anybody, men’s groups, women’s groups, mixed….all kinds. Don’t get lost in the religious thing…..one all male group I attended was started by a catholic dude…the subject of religion never came up, it wasn’t the purpose. I am not religious by any means…..at all, but it worked well for me.

Finding a suitable group where you feel comfortable and safe may require a little searching on your part, and not every group works for everybody. I enjoyed my group time immensely, it was a great relief and learning opportunity for me. All part of the process for me.

Toofat

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[Anonymous]

Thank you

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[Anonymous]

A pleasure….

Toofat

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[Anonymous]

Krazy, one of the reasons your psychiatrist may insist on a regular meeting time each week is because of his own tight schedule. The psychologist my husband and I see has the same problem – when we stopped seeing him weekly and went to every two weeks, he suggested that it would be difficult to go back to a weekly visit and that if we missed one, we likely wouldn’t see him for four weeks – it wasn’t pressure to keep coming every week, he was just letting us know what the consequences might be. That’s just how it is, these people are in demand and booked pretty solidly. We could do a meeting by Skype since we are from out of town, but it’s not nearly as effective.

We are really seeing him for meditation training along with therapy (although he does do just psychotherapy as well), and he does have a small group of people following a similar path who meet together every two weeks as a group. Sometimes we each share our experiences, but not always. It’s open if we want to. He actually has two groups, one that started at the same time and another that started two years later, so we alternate, everyone meets once a month for their particular group and we all meet once in between as a whole group. What’s nice about meeting as a group is that you get to hear other people’s struggles and realize that you’re not the only one! And hear other people’s successes too, and know that it might be possible for you too. And sometimes you’ll hear something that resonates with you, that you might not have realized about yourself. Very helpful.

The combination of meditation training and psychotherapy is very effective, definitely more effective than just meditation training on its own. They say you can go through all of the zen koan training and still not have dealt with your personal material. An article I read this week said that quite a few important North American meditation teachers are turning to therapy. So it’s definitely becoming more mainstream in the meditation community.

I wouldn’t know what to suggest about trying another therapist – you are putting a lot of trust in the individual and although difficult emotions are bound to (meant to) come up, it’s still important that you resonate with the person. That’s how I feel about it.

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[Anonymous]

Toofat, enjoyed reading your recap of your therapy experiences!

I would agree, I have some fear about going into places that I have boxed off, it’s difficult because I don’t even realize I’ve boxed them away, so when they come up, they can be quite overwhelming. But as my teacher/therapist says – “don’t you feel more alive when you’re experiencing that?” – I really hate to answer yes, but it’s true. They are part of my life experience and walling them off means I’m killing off part of myself. So bringing them back to awareness is bringing me back to life, however challenging that might be. At least having those experiences in the presence of my therapist is a safe place to deal with them, and he’s always around if I need to call him, he’s very careful to let us know when he’s away and unavailable.

Not sure if that came across ok.

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[Anonymous]

no_dopamine, I can certainly understand the doc’s desire to arrrange for a set time every week, but I work different nights every week, so finding a set time is extremely hard, unless I do it after school hours, which means (a) driving there and back in busy traffic, and (b) having my kids at home when I return from my appointment, which means I would be putting myself at bigger risk of a driving accident, and I wouldn’t be able to vent my emotions when arriving home, like I did last time. I could possibly set an early morning time, but if I worked the previous night, then I would have to deal with trying to sleep after going through the emotions of a therapy appointment. Which also wouldn’t be desirable. I really need to be able to book my appointments for when I have a day off.

I am mostly disappointed because I raised the issue of set appointment times when I was first told about my options. I stated that I worked shift work, and I would most likely need a different appointment time each week. I was told that this was the last thing I should worry about, and that it could be worked around without too much hassle. So when I was asked to nominate a set time, I was rather miffed. I am happy to book a block of appointments ahead of time, as I get my rosters, but to pick a set time and then have to change it only when it doesn’t suit is just too hard. I would either have to deal with the issues above, or change the time almost every week anyway.

As for a different therapist, I will see how things go. I am not sure if I “resonate” with this fellow or not. I think the idea of psychoanalysis hit me so much from left field that I am still sorting through my confusion over it all, and I need to separate out those feelings from my feelings about my doc as a therapist. He is certainly good at his job (the psychoanalysis bit of it) and I find I have a lot of respect for people who do their job well in such a difficult industry. He will be away for a conference in a few weeks, so I will have the chance to regroup and take stock of things then. It would be a suitable time to find another therapist, because if we are not “resonating” by then, I can assume it won’t happen.

On the meditation side of things, I am contemplating doing something like Tai Chi with my daughter. She had a meltdown the other day, because she couldn’t understand something. It was the proverbial straw that broke the camel’s back, and out came all her frustrations with school work. She refuses to try any sort of therapy (after hating the CBT we tried), and she really needs something to help her relax and get away from her worries for a bit. She used to have a “safe place” within dance, but was bullied by some girls in her dance class and it upset her whole world, because dance was the one thing she was really, really good at, and when she was dancing, she felt safe and comfortable, and she would come truely alive. Anyone who saw her perform would not believe that it was the same quiet, introverted child they had come to know. Once she lost that safe place in her life, her anxieties really took hold, and she has not been settled since – even her dancing has suffered, as her self-esteem was shattered by the bullying. I can imagine that her natural grace would make her good at Tai Chi, and thus help her feel good about herself again, as well as giving her a “place of serenity” to “own”.

We’ll see. I am good at coming up with these ideas, but not so good on the follow through

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[Anonymous]

No_Dopamine meditation sounds like it could be helpful. Locally, there is a group starting that does some thai yoga and then meditation. It seems like it might be a good idea; from what I have been told, focussing/being in the present moment is helpful for ADHD-ers. My partner/wife reports that with the drugs I am on now, my usually noisy snoring has stopped. Dumb luck works

Certainly, learning to relax, getting my body relaxed would be great, getting stiff and creeky is not helpful, will try to do it.

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