Self esteem

[paisia]

Thank you all for your personal experiences. A couple of you mentioned the book ‘You mean I’m not lazy…’ and being in Holland means I can’t just pick the book up in the library, but someone was kind enough to photocopy the whole book and put it online, and here it is :http://inyer.org/downloads/You_Mean_Im_Not_Crazy.pdf

Miguelangel could you explain in one sentence what you mean, I got a bit lost sorry.

Dithl, I think your creature was looking for a place to sleep quietly over winter.

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[Patte Rosebank]

Being able to laugh helps a lot!

When I can step back and look at a situation from another angle (or several angles), I’ll usually find something funny in it. If not immediately, then later on…sometimes MUCH later on.

I was bullied mercilessly as a kid, so, even now, when I hear random laughter, I still get that crushing feeling of, “Oh, no!  They’re laughing at me!”, even though I know that 97% of the time, it’s got nothing to do with me at all.

The other 3% hurts. Most of the time, I’ll either: (a) try to ignore it, (b) pity those malicious people for being so insecure that they need to put-down strangers to feel better about themselves, or (c) join in, because the situation really is funny, and freaking out won’t help me.

My favourite example:  I spent half an hour walking down the Vegas Strip, oblivious to the 4-foot “tail” of toilet paper trailing out the back of my trousers, until a mortified female security guard came out of a store and pointed it out to me…and that people had been taking pictures and laughing, but making no effort to alert me to my “tail”.

What did I do?

I burst out laughing, tossed away the “tail”, and continued on my merry way, giggling as I thought of the fun I’d have telling this story. The poor security guard looked at me as if I’d escaped from somewhere, and fled into the store.  But, really, what else could I do?

And by laughing at myself, I went from being the butt of the joke to being the one in control of the situation. (“I MEANT to do that silly thing!”)

That’s why a lot of bullied kids turn to comedy: It’s a power-trip!

And because you have more fun if you’re not afraid to look ridiculous now & then. (Right, @Rick?)

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[blackdog]

I just read the line “I’ll  usually find something funny in it” as “I’ll usually find something furry in it”. I guess I was still thinking of dithl’s little furry creature. 😆

My mother told me that I should pity the bullies. She told me the only reason they bullied me was because they knew that I was really better than them. It did help a little. Not much, but a little.

Laughter really is the best medicine. Especially if you can laugh at yourself.

@dithl, I hope your little critter finds it’s way out okay.

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[miguelangel]

I try to summarize: I meant that we have the bad habit to measure and evaluate ourselves using the same scale used by people without ADHD which lead us to overestimate our flows. So focus in our faults we are not able to perceive some of the qualities associated with be ADHD: realizing abnormalities or singularities in any situation given, the ability to manage conflict with risk, to fit in any environment or be able to adapt yourself to a changing life and a changing work. Also ADHD people I meet, usually have a good heart, generosity and a tolerant and comprehensive open mind, great qualities, much more important than punctuality, ability to plan ahead or not procrastinate and finish your projects

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[paisia]

Ah Muchas gracias miguelangel.

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[blackdog]

“much more important than punctuality, ability to plan ahead or not procrastinate and finish your projects”

Yes, but try telling that to the rest of the world.

You make a very good point though @miguelangel. We should not try to compare ourselves to others. Even others with ADD. Because if I compare myself to most of the members of this forum I look like a big fat loser.

And we should not lose sight of our good qualities. And we all have some.

At my self esteem group the facilitator said “everyone is great at something”. I thought about it and then wrote down in my notepad: “I am great at creating chaos out of order.” 😉

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[sdwa]

@paisia – I don’t know if it’s forever for you. I worry it might be for me.

@blackdog – thanks, that’s nice of you to say – although there is nothing I can do. I feel there are few places where who I am is OK, – they’re hard to find, and don’t last. We’re not islands; we have to live in some context.

@larynxa – your comment reminded me of a day I got on the bus and a woman looked at me and announced, “There’s something wrong with that bitch.” Story of my life. Always somebody around to point out what’s wrong. I’m a magnet for people like that. Like the day this Princess Diana look-alike insurance agent type of person walked up to me in the park – never saw her before in my life – walks up to me out of the blue and says, “Does your husband deal drugs?” in this catty, insinuating way – she’s accusing me of being on something. Or when my boss didn’t believe that I’ve written a book. Like yes, I do actually know things and have skills. So typical. I have to listen to stuff like all the time. Death by a thousand paper cuts.

@miguelangel – yes I think that is true, we can’t evaluate ourselves on the same scale as others. I’m the same way – when other people are overwhelmed by a tense situation, I calm down. If for no other reason, being treated badly makes a person more compassionate. People with ADHD seem to have more empathy than others, not less.

 

I feel “different.” I am different. Other people make the differences wrong. Probably I said this before somewhere, but no one looks at a tree and asks if it is a good tree. it would be easier to maintain that elusive “self-esteem” quality we are all constantly being nagged to have – IF it were possible to hold down a job and survive in a hostile, unwelcoming environment – IF I had places to go where what I bring to the table is something others actually want.

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[blackdog]

@sdwa – I know what you mean. It is much easier for me to say those things about someone else than about myself, believe me. I was actually shocked at how hard it was when my therapist asked me what my good qualities are. I choked completely. I just couldn’t say it out loud, like somehow it was wrong.

I know snappy come backs are not easy for most of us to come by, but in the situations you mention, I can think of a few. The one who asked if your husband deals drugs, I would say something like “why, are you looking for a new dealer?” The one on the bus…I can’t even believe someone was that rude….something like “do you always talk to yourself like that?” might be appropriate.

Not that I would have thought of either of those if it happened to me.

I can sort of relate to your boss not believing you wrote a book. Sort of, because I have never accomplished anything that impressive. But when I was in high school I was accused of plagiarism by one of my teachers. I was puzzled when he handed my essay back to me and I had a failing grade. So I went to him and asked why. He told me that I “obviously copied it from a book”. When I told him I didn’t he said “Oh, really?”, grabbed it out of my hand and read the first paragraph out loud. Then he looked at me and said “Are you really going to stand there and tell me that you wrote that?’

As a matter of fact, I did write it, and did a damn good job too. I told him I could get the books that I used for reference to prove it and asked if he would change my mark if I did. He said no. So I just let it go.

I really should have gone to the principal and complained. I didn’t really know that I could do something like that at the time and just swallowed my pride and took what satisfaction I could from the knowledge that he was wrong. And that my writing was so good that it looked like it came from a book.

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[sdwa]

@blackdog

Wow, what a story about the teacher who didn’t believe you wrote your paper yourself. That actually happened to me once, too, and I was so angry that the teacher backed down – self-righteous indignation seems to work in those situations. That makes me mad, just hearing about your experience. I want to go back in time and slap that guy for you.

When the Princess Di lady said “Does your husband deal drugs?” I said, “No, does yours?” and she said, “No, I would never marry a man like that.” But by then, the damage was done. She went waltzing off into her smug evening and I slunk home feeling devastated and freakish and cried for about five hours. She struck me as the sort of person who would laugh about my weakness if she knew how upset I was by her comments.

Writing non-fiction is so much easier than writing fiction. With non-fiction, I can just rearrange information to make it clear. With fiction, I actually have to make stuff up.

I may need to look for a job soon, which I dread. I am so bad at self-promotion or even talking to people. The truth is I have real skills – I can write and I have a solid command of design principles and typography – not brilliant, but professional.  I can design a book or other text-heavy document.  I’m also a good artist, with a boat load of painting skills – not that that pays anything. I read and know many things that have no particular market value. I have a technical credential a lot of engineers struggle to get. But that doesn’t help me much, either.

Seems like I often work hard to achieve or produce things that are not recognized or appreciated by anyone but me. I feel invisible. Or visible in a bad way. Never had a career. Felt like a loser because of it for most of my life. At this late date, I’m content just to stay employed. I hope for better for my kids. My true accomplishments are the creative projects that give me a sense of meaning and purpose. If I won the lottery, I’d spend it reading, studying, taking classes, and learning new things (and sending my kids to school).

There’s nothing more important than education. Which doesn’t have to come from a book. It could come from watching and doing. Anyone who can create or build anything…I think those skills are important and real.

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[paisia]

Well said  🙂

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[Jimi]

Incase you haven’t registered yet, register for our Webinar tomorrow night on self esteem, You Can Dramatically Transform Your Self-Esteem with Rick Green and David Giwerc!
Register here:  http://totallyadd.com/webinars/

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[blackdog]

Great tip Jimi. Thanks. 🙂

Now, the question is, do I call and tell them I can’t go to group so that I can stay home to watch the webinar? It’s tempting, but I think I’ll have to pass. My therapist did pull some strings to get me into the group so flaking out after the first session wouldn’t be nice. And I have plans concerning one of the other members of the group. If I can manage to muster enough of my own self esteem to go through with it.

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[blackdog]

@sdwa – Thanks for the thought. I have often daydreamed about what I would say/do if I saw him again. But most of those involved me either being a successful artist or writer. Which I am not.

Did I mention that he was my art teacher….No, I didn’t. I started out in general level art but I didn’t like it and decided to move up to advanced. All the teachers argued with me and tried to stop me from doing it, but I finally ended up in the advanced class taught by the department head. And he always resented me for it.  On the first day I chose an oil/acrylic brush to paint with watercolours and he told me if I couldn’t tell what a water colour brush looked like I didn’t belong in his advanced class. I used the “wrong” brush every time I painted with water colours after that, just out of spite.

I got that kind of attitude a lot from the advanced teachers. Which was ridiculous because the only reason I took courses at the advanced and general levels was that I didn’t have the confidence to take them at the enriched level, where I should have been for most of them.

When I was in college I wrote an essay on the benefits of mainstreaming in the school system.

I have never had a career and gave up on the idea a long time ago. But I have recently changed my opinion on the subject. I can’t do most of the things I always wanted to now, but there are a few options that are still open to me. And I have to try. The alternative is just too depressing.

sdwa, it might help if you sit down and list each of your skills and all of the related jobs you could possibly do with them. And then pick the ones you think you would enjoy doing the most. And those painting skills might not be helpful when it comes to a regular pay cheque, but have you thought about trying to get your work exhibited? Or maybe renting a booth at an arts and crafts show?

I have to stop now because this is way too long and All in the Family is on and it’s too distracting. I haven’t seen it since I was a kid. It’s still one of the best. 😀

 

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[sdwa]

@blackdog

Your art instructors sound kind of silly. The tools are there to serve you, not you them. The reason to know about different brushes, as with all other materials and techniques, is to understand what effect they produce – so you can get the effect you want by choosing the right tool for the job. If you’re satisfied with what a particular brush gives you, there is no reason not to use that brush.

I have exhibited some of my paintings (I was in a couple of group shows, one at a museum.) I gave up my studio right around the time I had the work to get a gallery (due to having a child) and that was a long time ago. If I had the money, space, and time, I’d probably be doing similar non-decorative work. Art for art’s sake – not design, not decor. The cost of materials, studio space, tools, storage, transportation, documentation, etc. is prohibitive. Galleries take 50%. When you factor in the amount of time to produce the work, it is no way to earn a living. People who survive in that arena usually have another source of income.

The amount of money to be made doing work I’m not interested in is so small, there would be no point.  I’ve looked at illustration and graphic design options – it takes a certain temperament and unique skill set. It could take years to identify and develop a niche as an illustrator (such as to become the person with the best wood cuts, or the best dragons or whatnot). Stock art houses have taken over – you really have to be special to have a market and not get ripped off.  Clients think graphic design is about taste and preference – they have no respect for the profession because they don’t understand it’s about making strategic decisions to clarify a message. And they don’t want to pay the real cost of labor.

I’ve invested a huge amount of money in retraining over the years and none of it translated to gainful employment, so I’m hesitant to invest more time, money, grief, and willpower trying to learn to do things I don’t enjoy – which won’t pay off anyway. If I’m going to kill myself trying to learn something, I want it to be something I’m passionate about. What I’ve learned is that things I thought would be right for me based on my art skills completely go against who I am as a person, what I believe in and value.

For the last year I’ve devoted myself to working on a novel and learning as much as I can to make it work – but there is no money in it, and probably never will be, because I don’t want to write commercial fiction.  I don’t have a commercial mentality about creative projects. It’s not who I am – I can’t force myself to be that kind of person.

So, all I know at this point is that when I make lists about how to make money with my skills, or try to imagine jobs that might be good for me – I’m always wrong. I am notoriously bad at identifying where I fit, which leads me to believe the answer is nowhere.

I’d be better off learning how to do accounting, although I would hate it and be terrible at it. But at least I wouldn’t have other people in my head trampling on what I care about with their stupid agendas.  Ironically, I actually like doing office support – it’s the corporate environment I can’t tolerate. Or the mentality that puts money above people or above expressing something meaningful instead of producing vapid stuff with commercial appeal that is transitory, forgettable, and disposable.

Money has to go to my children at this point, anyway. My son says I would be a good teacher. Probably the highest compliment I have ever received.

I’ve tried to get career advice/counseling in the past, but it didn’t help. My concern is not just about packaging skills but compatible values. And if the values are going to be completely incompatible, and the social environment totally repulsive, the money better be excellent. So far, nothing I’ve done pays jack.

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[blackdog]

@sdwa Well, I have no experience with art galleries or anything like that, which is fairly easy to see. I was just brainstorming and trying to come up with something that I thought might be helpful. But obviously you have been there and done that and don’t want to do it again.

I do understand about the cost. It is so expensive to buy even the most basic supplies. I decided to save money by making Halloween decorations and so far I have spent enough to buy the things I am trying to make. And that is with using mostly recycled materials. And it’s not even an actual art/craft project. I am just slapping it together and not worrying about the details because no one is going to look at it for more than 2 seconds anyway. I keep thinking I should have just bought them. But then, that wouldn’t have been as much fun. And I have come up with some really cool things along the way, like spiderweb lanterns, which I am going to put all around the porch with LED candles in them.

But I’m getting off topic. My teachers were not the brightest crayons in the box for sure. And I actually did prefer the effect that the stiffer brushes gave me with the watercolours. I don’t like watercolour. I prefer a more crisp line and bold colours. I am not much of a painter though. I was always more interested in sculpture. But the teacher warned us off sculpture at the beginning of the year, saying that they didn’t have the supplies so anyone who chose sculpture would have to be responsible for providing their own. Well, my family didn’t have much money, so I decided I better not do that. But one girl did choose sculpture. And he fell all over her, bent over backwards to provide her with everything she needed, even building a stand for one of her sculptures himself and showing it off to the whole class…..I was not impressed.

Oh, and I just remembered one other thing that he did to me. He was looking for volunteers to paint the scenery for the play that year. They were doing The Wizard of oz, which I love, and I was so excited I had my hand up before he was done speaking.

So I was sitting there with my hand held high and he looked around the room and said “Anyone? Are there any volunteers? Anyone? “. Like I was invisible. Finally he looked at me with a disgusted look on his face and said “anyone besides _____”

A couple of others reluctantly put their hands up and he wrote the names down and said they were still building the set and he would let us know when it was ready. And I waited, and waited…..and I thought to myself they better start decorating it soon, they don’t have much time left….And then one day I walked by the stage doors and looked in and there it was. A completely decorated set.

You know, it’s no wonder my self esteem isn’t the best. Especially when it comes to art. I have never really seriously studied art since high school and I rarely try to actually do any work. And when I do I never finish it. I think as soon as someone invents a time machine I am going to go back and slap that teacher myself. Anyone else who wants to come along is welcome. 😉

Getting back on track…..I understand perfectly what you mean compatible values. It is very important to do something that you can feel good about doing. And it is hard to find that. And I think the idea of doing a boring job like accounting is actually very good. And it’s something you can do from home so you don’t have to deal with that corporate environment. And you can work on your creative projects on the side so that you can take the time to do them the way you want.

There I go, telling you what to do again. Sorry, it’s a bad habit. But it is actually exactly what I have been thinking of doing. Except for the accounting. That would be horrible. But I am thinking that I would do better having a boring job that doesn’t require any creativity and then I can follow my muse on my own time. And I am also thinking  of working at home. I can control my environment that way and don’t have to deal with the totally repulsive social environment. 🙂

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