stimulants and intolerable insomnia

[Anonymous]

good luck tomorrow, sugargremlin!

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[Anonymous]

Thanks no dopamine!

I saw the sleep doc today and it was a good experience. I have been sleeping pretty well the last week due to increased sleep meds so I was worried he would tell me that I don’t have a problem, but he was very thorough and took me very seriously. He took a look at sleep graph (talked about in my other sleep thread).

http://totallyadd.com/forum/topic.php?id=1808

and immediately saw that I have a legitimate (ie more than “night owl”) delayed phase sleep syndrome. a month and a half of bedtimes graphed. ranged between 11pm and 6am. only two 11pms. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delayed_sleep_phase_syndrome

not awesome news as this is difficult to treat.

I also most likely have periodic leg sleep movements. He said that he does not usually treat this unless restless leg syndrome is involved. and for me, i do not have RLS.

first steps.. are for me to sit outside in the sun for 10-15 minutes before doing anything to wake myself up. going to wear sunglasses at night to tell my brain it is sleepy. exercise 3-4 hours before bedtime.

he told me to buy this book: http://www.amazon.com/More-Sleepless-Nights-Peter-Hauri/dp/0471149047/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

He told me that he studied under these principles. i forget whether he had said that he either trained under these principles or under this guy??? But the guy I saw is accredited by numerous sleep organizations.

friend here to walk… bye bye…

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[Anonymous]

Sounds like a good strategy. Have you considered one of the wakeup lights as well? The one we have can be set to a very bright level.

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[Anonymous]

I live in Arizona, USA. There is so much sunlight here that the doc told me there is rarely need for a lightbox here. But I will go there if I need it as my circadian and seasonal rhythm is very delicate.

oh! i was researching circadian rhythms and blue light. I am going to buy some crazy amber blue light restricting glasses to wear at night. I can post the link if anyone is interested. I am actually completely veering out of the ADHD context. This is pretty much relevant only to people with circadian rhythm problems and bipolar disorder. ah well.

ok.. well..officially I have broken every rule I need to follow >_<. tomorrow is another day lol! and I am so excited for my packages to arrive (bought a bunch of self help bipolar and ADHD books). I just need to set my alarm 10 minutes earlier x_X

wow.. I have completely tangentialed this thread. turns out that stimulants are not the critical factor in my insomnia. doc barely mentioned them.

one curiosity I have…. about the possibility that I do not have ADHD and just an insomnia bipolar problem only with a still on the normal spectrum distracted hyperactive disorganized personality type. Although my doc with a ton of experience with ADHD did diagnose me. but interesting and I do have an open mind to it. either way, I’ve been learning a lot and feel better about myself lol.

no dopamine- your advice and following your journey have been so helpful to me. thank you so much!!!!! Time management, organization, and feeling overwhelmed with a ton of useless thoughts are significant problems for me as I attempt to work a professional job and manage my daily affairs, but I think that sleep maybe the more critical problem I did not see (not including the bipolar disorder which has been the reigning emperor on my list of chronic problems for years). Sleep will help the bipolar and focus anyway.

I should create a special insomnia thread.

but now, I should go to bed.

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[Anonymous]

Hi sugargremlin,

Lucky you, lots of sunshine! Post the link, I am interested. My husband is using our Phillips blue light but perhaps he would be interested. Depression runs in his family (his brother is the one with undiagnosed bi-polar) and he suffers bouts of it.

My mom is the one who was diagnosed with narcolepsy 20 years ago and who helped me through the system with her GP, so I was able to get a sleep study (which didn’t give enough info for the sleep doc to diagnose me then). She recognized the symptoms in me. So I am just being a little pain-in-the-butt whenever I hear anyone having sleep issues that persist. It’s not normal! I’m helping fulfil my mom’s nature of wanting to help others once we’ve been helped ourselves. Sounds silly, but one family friend said my mom helped save her life by getting her to pursue a proper diagnosis (she has trigeminal nerve issues and now epileptic seizures), so much that she made a large donation to set up a bursary at the music program at a local university when my mom passed away. I’m not trying to follow in my mom’s footsteps, but it makes such a difference in the quality of one’s life to have a proper diagnosis and treatment, it’s worth the effort.

I have also struggled with my own GP, who thinks I just want performance-enhancing drugs and has probably labelled me a problem patient. I am very grateful to the ADHD specialist that I saw, because he is the one who, after reviewing everything and concluding that I had “textbook ADHD”, refused to issue a final report without a sleep study. I guess sleep disorders can present as ADHD, so if you have any sleep issues, it’s a good idea to get them diagnosed properly as treatment could be very different (such as sleep apnea). Then assessment and treatment for ADHD can proceed for the residual issues, which is what my ADHD specialist said he’d look at.

I may not have ADHD either, but the meds I am taking are good for both narcolepsy and ADHD, I think, so I am covered either way – the narcolepsy is a more “acceptable” diagnosis for my GP because it’s backed up by diagnostic data.

Keep in touch, I am interested to hear about the books, how they fit with your symptoms, and any techniques that are helpful for you.

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[nellie]

Sugar and No_dopamine,

reading about your sleep struggles have been extremely interesting and helpful. I am starting to wonder if I have something else going on besides the ADD.

My next step is trying to regulate my sleep habits and get into an exercise routine before seeking a sleep doctor.

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[Anonymous]

created my new thread.. need to run.

http://totallyadd.com/forum/topic.php?id=1970#post-17287

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[Anonymous]

I was going to suggest it, Nellie, but I’ve kind of gone on and on about it like a broken record, I’m glad you are going to look into it.

The difference with taking modafinil: I have found that I am now getting to bed earlier, usually before 10 pm unless I am sucked in by the computer (I try to be off it by 8:30 or 9). I get up regularly at about 7 am with my alarms and wakeup light. I could snooze more at that time (from my sleep study, I’m getting into deeper and REM sleep by then), but I want to take my meds earlier in the day, so I get up and take them. I’ve been experimenting with a half dose at 11:30, but I feel spaced out by late afternoon and really tired in the evening, so I’m going back to a full dose. But I need to take it early so I can burn it off by evening. It does keep me quite alert through the afternoon and into the early evening. No napping required, when I wake up at night I can usually get back to sleep quite easily.

Although I still feel I’m getting used to the meds, life is very different now that the excessive daytime sleepiness and fragmented night’s sleep is being treated. I am working now on the bad habits that I developed as coping strategies to deal with all of that. Attention can still be wild at times, not sure if that was because of the lesser dose or not, but I am taking notes and trying to evaluate it myself.

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[Anonymous]

nellie,

exercise 3-4 hours before bedtime. not later than that (unless that would mean a health altering sedentary life of course). My sleep doc told me that I could take a warm shower instead if I were really lazy because it warms the body temperature.

join us on the other thread!

no dopamine. that is seriously awesome that you experiencing life without that yucky sleepy feeling.

with less sleepiness, you may have more energy for more energetic wild attention lol. (i know. not the point ).

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[billd]

Sleep disorders often cause the same symptoms. They ruled that out, but they ARE so related, symptom-wise, that the sleep doc wanted to be sure it wasn’t really that and not ADHD. The neuro-psych ruled ADHD in, ruled the other issues out, but I may have multiple things going on. Lack of sleep can cause a whole slew of issues – sleep but the wrong type can cause issues (I sleep, but drop almost instantly into dream – never get the deep refreshing sleep)

I know my cycles are all messed up…… and getting worse.

Nice thing is the adderall might not be doing much for the ADHD – but it does let me get through a weekend day without sleeping most of it away. I got a lot done today! No nap, and didn’t even eat much. Tired now, but that’s good considering what time it is.

I HOPE to in a week or so get my sleep study results – they won’t discuss without seeing me.

I’ve had some “restless nights” since starting adderall – but yesterday when I called about that and some other stuff – they said that might settled down, often does, after a while.

I do have a lot of ups and downs with adderall – I nearly crash, then an hour later, I’m awake and ready to go again. I have about an hour mid-morning where I feel “nervous” or a bit “jittery” (never knew what that was until recently!)

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[Anonymous]

Sugargremlin, I feel quite normal now, it’s weird 😯

billd, high five for getting a day’s work done! That feels soooooo good, doesn’t it?

For me, starting off on a low dose of the Modafinil (provigil) didn’t help my sleep. I was going to give it a week before upping the dose but gave in after a few days of consistently awful sleep (my usual pattern, knowing that ritalin had helped so well. So things were ok for awhile and I decided to decrease the dose at the midday to see what effect it would have on my nighttime. I was more tired in the afternoon, sleepy early in the evening, but very nervous energy, scattered feeling and the second day I just felt very spaced out in the afternoon, and with each morning after the lower dose I felt tired, sleepy, the meds didn’t kick in right away. So yesterday I went back to two full doses (1 on waking and 1 before lunch) and I feel back to normal – the new normal, that is.

It’s really challenging to experiment with doseage levels because it’s hard to be objective about it, I keep a memo pad log and write stuff down day and night including the times I wake up at night, etc. I’ll give the sleep doc a log and review it at that time too. He told me I shouldn’t count on feeling alert at night but I am finding with the two doses that I’m just dandy at night and sleep is good too. So I’m sticking with this level now, will see what happens over time. I am not opposed to taking a drug holiday in future if I plan it and know that I can go back on and have the same results.

I really recommend checking out the other link that Sugargremlin started – the link about bipolar disorder and light and dark – skip the references to bipolar as what they are saying about light and dark can apply to all of us in this modern society where we have conquered nature’s power over us in terms of light/dark.

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[Anonymous]

billd, share your sleep study results when you get them!

sleeping away days is definitely not ok! glad that you are finding some relief from that. maybe the adderall will be more helpful for focus when you figure out what is going on with your sleep?? i know you’ve talked about having meniere’s disease. very complicated and seems like you have been waiting a very long time to piece it all together and find professionals who will join you versus trying to simplify you and attribute together what is easier.

and yes.. peoples do join us over at the other thread

http://totallyadd.com/forum/topic.php?id=1970#post-17287

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[Author]

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