desperate to managing my sleep cycle. any one want to join?

[Anonymous]

My ADD journey began this May when I discovered the horrible truth that I required 12 hours to do a 6 hour job. of course, there have been a lifetime of symptoms, but found my only brick wall.

I currently work monday, wednesday, friday and need to arrive by 7:45am. Well, on every no work the next day evening, I have close to ZERO sleep self control, and 3-4am internet trance episodes are the normal. Friends try and do interventions and will just walk out of my home or force me to go home just because I cannot let go and just wind down to bed. I do usually manage before 1am on nights before work, but 5 hours of sleep to work a 12 hour day is not okay for me. When I was a child, it used to be a fight with my mom. I got a lot of spankings related to refusal to go to bed.

I have had insomnia problems since I was a child. 4 years ago, my body apparently just completely forgot how to sleep at all and I’ve been taking ambien every day for the last 4 years and only sleep in 15 min intervals without it. I was given the ambien because I started to have sleep attacks which made driving dangerous and work/school awkward.

Problem with my constant sleep schedule switch is that it exacerbates my insomnia. It does not matter how much ambien I take. I cannot fall asleep before midnight..difficult to sleep decently before 2am. I have a lot of difficulty waking up in the morning. Driving to work in the morning is dangerous for me as I just cannot wake up (not the sleep meds as this only happens when I am driving to operate a motor vehicle before 9am.

I’m reaching the problem that the ambien is no longer working and I am feeling irritable and sleep deprived. The only solution is to fix my sleeping schedule. My long time friends laugh as I have been proclaiming this for the last 10 years. I just can never find the will power to go to sleep.. NEVER.. like some secret power compels me not to go to bed. I linger with everything. every night. no exceptions.

I bought a kitchen timer to monitor how long I linger. 40 min on the toilet playing on my mobile? 20 min brushing and flossing my teeth? not shutting down the computer because I lingered on the internet for an extra hour? I am lingering with this very post. So I put the timer on when I am in the bathroom and hear it go off.. i barely even react to it anymore.

PLAN OF ATTACK:

-shut off computer if I know that I am going to be out later or be out late enough to want to get ready for bed first

-no computer internet after midnight for any reason/ no computer after 10pm on evenings before work.

-do not bring the mobile into the bathroom with me

-mobile is less compulsive than the computer internet, but I still manage to waste a bunch of time, albiet less.

-plug in the mobile in my room before I make the last bathroom trip of the night, no matter how much battery is available wanting to play pandora and log on to BBC

-excel sleep schedule spreadsheet (wasted soooooo much time creating this lol). must map out my progress. maybe a little motivation?

-kitchen timer to get an idea how long things should ideally take me

-i might obtain some accountability friends to help with sleep schedule motivation. my friends already are forcing themselves from my home at a certain time which is hard for the ones who like me a little more than they should.

time management-

-spread sheets to assess my days and figure out how much time I waste a day doing what.

work

-still a mess. the booster PM dexedrine has not helped me . I’m really not sure what to do now. well, can’t worry about everything at once. maybe better sleep will help? at least I have been managing full 8 hour days + whatever extra crap the day throws by (blah for still 12 hour days). i think thanks to vyvanse?..sometimes I don’t even know if it works….

i should make a work spreadsheet too.. where is my time going there? I know part of it is having difficulty saying no and lingering during appointments.

one thing at a time.

ok. it is close to 11pm and i need to turn off compy now…. WHY IS THIS SO HARD????? unnaturallllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

goodnight???

I have a dentist appointment tomorrow at 3pm. super awkward time. Can I get at least 3hours of school work done in the AM? would be a first in my life with an appointment at that awkward a time. maybe two hours to be nicer to myself.

ok……now……….night night

ps. thanks to no dopamine for timer and spreadsheet inspiration.

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[Tiddler]

I hope you got some sleep.

I will try your ‘no computer after 10 on worknights’ rule too. I’ll let you know how it goes.

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[Cat Alberts]

Are you taking any ADHD medication?

I heard that the peace and quiet in the brain when taking it, gets tired ADHD people to sleep.

That might help.

I have ADD so I was always sleepy…

Looks like a complex issue, with brain and body and sleeping-pill addiction.

I hope you find a way out and into sleep.

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[nellie]

Sugargremlin,

Your situation sounds pretty complicated.Have you considered consulting a professional?

I also have trouble regulating myself in terms of going to bed. I know I should yet don’t.I’ve been a bit better lately and have made myself go to bed before 1AM at the latest. I’ve even made it before midnight for a while. I’m able to get up reasonably well if I have to.

SInce I’ve had house guests for a week I’ve been really busy and was so tired I went to bed without going on the internet. However, last night we had some down time after getting home about 9 at night and I ended up online till 2 AM. This caused me to get up late and here I am at 10 am, tired and totally behind on my day and haven’t even looked at my agenda. I would have had time this morning to do some work related stuff I’m behind on but my impulse control is diminished despite the ADD meds.

However, it just occurred to me that part of the problem is impulse control in general when one is tired. Our meds are no longer effective at at time of day when we actually could use them most! For myself, I think I will have to make an effort to schedule my day once again down to actual bed time. I did this a while ago and it worked. Won’t say it was fun, I just hate to go to bed, but it definitely worked!

And Sugar, hope this doesn’t sound flippant, but it seems to me all of your tracking sheets are quite complicated and you’ve established quite a few rules. It’s almost like a complete overhaul all at once. Maybe a one at a time implementation would be easier to manage? In comparison, the times I’ve tried to completely change my diet and start working out all at once it ended up being way too much mental effort and I gave up quickly. However lately I’ve made small changes and it’s been easier to incorporate. For example, walk dogs and eat less junk food one week, Then incorporate more vegetables etc the next week. I’m not saying I’m fit and eating the perfectly balanced diet but it has certainly improved beyond what it was and I’ve been cooking most meals at home.

At any rate, I’ll join you in your sleep improvement journey as of Friday night. My house guests leave late tonight so I couldn’t get to bed before midnight or 1 anyway. But as a security deposit to confirm my good intentions, I’ll declare that I won’t surf past 12:30 tonight if given the opportunity

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[Anonymous]

I have terrible sleeping habbits. Even when I’m tired there seems to be something more ineresting to do othher than sleeping.

I function with 3 or 4 hours of sleep. but i don’t function well.

I constantly miss morning apointments which makes me feel ashamed. I try to book everything for 2 pm or later. I think the timer/spreadsheet is a good idea… but honestly i doubt I will remember to it.

An issue for me is poor time management. Sometimes I make a plan, but then tasks take longer to execute than I anticipate.

oN thing I have started to do is log everything half an hour earlir than it is in my calendar, this way i have a bette chance of getting there on time.

Also, when I feel rushed my functionability (is this a word) declines.My room gets torn apart, my keys go missing, I get flustered….

to combat this, I make alerts in my blackberry calendar to start getting ready for events, when I don’t ignore the little alert, this works quite well.

i think I will commit to sutting my computer off at 1 am from now on.

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[Cat Alberts]

I don’t know if it will help you, but I recently set up a high desktop for my computer.

So now I am standing while I surf, read and write.

Better for the veins and all, but I also noticed that when I get tired I walk away

(and sit on the couch watching TV, but still, the absorption is less than on the internet).

For me it had the result that fysical tiredness meant a loss of interest in standing behind a computer.

And more fysical tiredness earlier in the evening (10pm) because I am standing a couple of hours a day, instead of sitting.

I had my first varicose vein pop out 3 weeks ago, right where the edge of my chair cuts into my leg, so it scared me into this.

And yes Sugargremlim, be kind to yourself.

Go from small success to small success, much better than 100 things all at once.

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[Anonymous]

Hi guys! thank you for all the support and good advice!

A lot of thoughts to respond to.

You guys are right that I am probably getting over zealous and will burn myself out. I am just not being successful and I am really frustrated. Last night, I got to bed at [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[12:30am]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]. which is actually a huge victory for an evening with nothing specific planned for the early morning. I woke up at 8:30am really confused about what do people do at this hour except for go to work or class. I managed to wake up and nearly finish my school project before my 3pm dentist appointment. I did accomplish that 3 hours of work which I was hoping to..all thanks to going to bed “early”.

I am thinking about what to cut out of my plan.. probably the work and task planning stuff. Thanks to vyvanse, I have been much more productive during the day and my to do list is actually getting done. The work thing is still a constant frustration. I do need internet cut offs. I do need to plug in the mobile vs. it distracting me. i do need the timer to keep me focused. and I think the spreadsheet is good motivation. and i still think an accountability friend is a good idea

one of my co-workers uses a workout ball in front of her desk.. interesting. and I do have one of those balls because I needed it for physical therapy… hmm… *reigns in brain*.

question??????? Does anyone here get hyper/more hyper at night? lifetime pattern for me. probably a route to my winding down problems.

blabber which may be annoying to read

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-I have been considering asking my doctor about whether I should get a sleep study.

-sleep disorders actually run in my family. My mom takes ambien nearly every night. My grandfather used to sleep about 4 hours a night. He was a happy man when the 24hr weather channel and CNN came to Canada.

-not sleeping is extremely risky for my mental health because I have bipolar disorder. I always have insomnia, but it worsens during mood episodes and protracted insomnia can either signal or trigger a new episode. So when I cannot sleep, my doctor and I throw whatever it takes into my body to make me sleep.

-however, I think that I really really really need to start doing my part because I know that my messed up sleep schedule contributes to my problem.

-my trouble winding down to go to bed and keep sleep schedules is constant and has no relation to mood episodes

-I am taking Vyvanse and an occasional booster dextroamphetamine for my sleep. I have not noticed a change in my sleep schedule with these meds, although it is nice not to nod off during my early morning drive to work.

-one day, I took the Vyvanse way way too late in the day. I had stayed up until 6am, then took the pill around 1:30pm when I woke up. not awesome when I am supposed to be attempting a 11-12am bedtime. Anyhow, it was the easiest night I have had winding down lol. Everything was ready to go and I was in bed at 11:15pm…but….. the combination of only being awake for 10 hours that day + being on a med that creates alertness= horrible sleep

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[Anonymous]

sugargremlin: get the sleep study. I’m having mine in a week and a half, and looking forward to the followup with my family doc and the sleep clinic director, I really need to get this issue resolved.

I think the sleep experts are the ones to turn to for this sort of thing, not the ADD experts. My husband said that it seems they are both treating similar symptoms, they definitely need to start working together on this stuff! But i read on another post that there are a lot more possibilities (meds) for sleep disorders than for ADD. So it might be very helpful for you to get a proper sleep study and diagnosis.

Now, GET OFF THE COMPUTER FRIEND! I am too.

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[Anonymous]

correction to my most recent post: i do not take ADHD meds for sleep >_<. I hate when I write things quickly and switch words which completely change the meaning of the post.

I’m trying to find a friend to go and take a walk with me. helpful to get out excess energy. Will be making compy sleepytime before I leave!!!!

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[Anonymous]

My husband and I are going to start doing daytime walks together at lunch. Two days ago we found a nice coffee shop to visit that’s a good distance away from work, so we have an incentive (and self-medication)!

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[Anonymous]

ok in sleep or lack of sleep news.. i used every little fiber of my willpower to get to bed at 11:15pm last night. i fell asleep with the help of my friend ambien…. and woke up at 3am… groans.. tossed and turned the rest of the night. right now it is about 1:15 am and im typing thison my mobile in bed. not that bad for me on a friday night. i was dead tired the whole day and i am wide awake right now. my doc didnt return my call so i rummaged through my little home pharmacy and found some seroquel. i ran out of my valium stash last week. i am going to start getting manic if this insomnia streak (worse than usual) doesn’t stop. i monosodium glutamate in food, but few are scientifically guess all i can do is my very very best to straighten up my sleep cycle. then ill have to stop the add meds due to mania risk. i love love that i can finish to do lists, keep groceries inthe house , not live in dirt, start on school work before crunchtime, not confuse people at work with tangentiality. startin to sleepy. goodnighr

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[Anonymous]

sugargremlin, if your sleep patterns are worsening, it’s a good idea to get in to see your doctor. I can definitely relate: my “insomnia” is worsening too, since I stopped the ritalin meds (which were borrowed meds). I have trouble getting to sleep at night (espec if I go to bed early), am tired all day long (I always have the feeling that I would like to crawl under something and nap, but I can’t fall asleep when I want to), I fall asleep when I’m seated and am just passively reading or watching a movie, and when I do get to sleep at night, I wake up every few hours (if not within 20 minutes) and have big-time headaches when I do get up.

Everything I’ve read about narcolepsy (which apparently I have, NOT insomnia) and driving says that it’s extremely risky to drive. So I totally get why the doc told me to stop driving immediately. OSA is different but also a risk for driving – OSA has been more studied than narcolepsy in relation to driving accidents.

The interesting thing that I have noticed is that when I reduced my commitments and had more “free” time, I started to notice the sleep issues more. They definitely became worse when I stopped the stimulant meds. So I think that keeping really, really busy also keeps me from noticing how tired I really am. And that appears to be a recipe for disaster when it comes to driving and alertness.

I still can’t believe how my family and specialist docs over the years missed this. It’s not like I didn’t try to get diagnosed for a sleep disorder, but I kept being told I didn’t have narcolepsy, and that I should just go to bed earlier, and not to ask for drugs to help me sleep. The sleep specialist I saw this week said that the ADD specialist I saw is a pretty sharp guy, and I agree. He’s the first one in recent history who suggested I needed to investigate this. My family doc treated me as if I was trying to get illicit drugs.

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[nellie]

So are they saying that you now don’t have ADD? Or are you blessed with both?

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[Anonymous]

i once got the pleasure to go to a drug dinner hosted by a sleep doctor. i wish i could remember more, but there were certain connections between dopamine alterations such as restless leg, periodic leg movement disorder (i know i do this), ADHD. i sadly do not remember enough to say anything credible. the drug dinner was for Xyrem which is supposedly an extremely bad ass sleep drug only approved for narcolespsy. as it is technically GHB “the date rape drug”. my mouth was salivating over this drug. perfect deep sleep in two 3 hour intervals. yes please!!!!

anyhow. in sleep news. glad i found that seroquel. KOed! 10 hours of sleep!!! i am so groggy, but so very worth it. i think i am going to take it for a few days and continue to work on my sleep cycle. anyhow. i did not turn on my computer this well.. afternoon. time to get a few things done! my mind feels so much better!

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[Anonymous]

congrats on the good night’s sleep, sugargremlin. Is the seroquel a sedative?

Nellie, it’s possible to have both narcolepsy and ADD. The ADD specialist is not a sleep specialist and the sleep specialist is not an ADD specialist, so I can see where both experts were required to diagnose this. The sleep specialist says that narcolepsy is the primary issue and ADD is further down the list. But I want to hear the results of the sleep study to see what’s happening. I still have a followup appt with the ADD specialist – pending results of the sleep study which he will receive – and he said that he wanted the sleep issues treated first and then he would treat any residual ADD. So my consultation phase is far from over.

I found a narcolepsy support site on Yahoo groups, and the co-moderator there is my age and has both narcolepsy and ADD, both textbook cases. So I am hoping to find out more there, in particular what drugs are available and how people have dealt with having their drivers’ license revoked and reinstated upon appeal. Mine hasn’t been yet, but it’s mandatory for the doc to report me once they have seen my sleep results and started treating me. He gave me an official warning not to drive on Thursday.

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[Author]

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