Just because I wasn't confused enough… ADD or Gifted?

[Monika]

Dear Experts,

My son 7 is seeing a counselor for ADD, we are in the process of requesting 504 accomodations in school. We have a few more strategies (like enrolling him in karate) before we consider medication but use of medication is not off the table if our other steps prove ineffective. So I’m unsure of the path we are taking but feel it’s the best route, then I find this and I’m conflicted all over again.

http://borntoexplore.org/gifted.htm

I know there must be a flaw to this like the difficulty in shaping the world to fit us instead of us adapting to the world but I’d love another opinion.

Thank you for your time,

M

REPORT ABUSE

[Patte Rosebank]

Be very wary of sites like this. While some of their information is sound, the fact that they are so much against medications and in favour of “alternative” therapies—especially when they’re trying to sell you books and other alternative therapies—should raise a huge red flag.

While it’s true that medications in general are being overprescribed for many, many medical conditions (the drug companies push the notion that if there’s anything at all wrong with you, just take a pill and that’ll fix it), medications can be very helpful, when used properly. Just saying, “Avoid all medications for ADD” is like saying, “I know you can’t see properly, but glasses are evil, so you shouldn’t wear them,” or “I know you’re having trouble walking, but you shouldn’t use orthotics or a cane, because if you do, you’ll become dependent on them.” You can see how ridiculous that argument is. If you need devices (and that includes medication) to help you function properly, then you should use them, provided you’ve learned all the facts and have a professional to prescribe them and monitor how they’re helping you.

That site also shows you that IQ testing alone is not a measure of how successful the individual will be. I have a higher IQ (Intelliigence Quotient) than my brother, but I have so much unrealized potential, while he is a very successful MBA and business analyst with a solid career, because he has a higher EQ (Emotional Quotient, which is a measure of how you interact with others) than I do.

The site also shows the problems of the standard educational system, which is built on an institutional model. It’s a rigid structure, designed to teach as many kids as possible, as efficiently as possible. Like an assembly line. This is great when all the kids are the same, with the same level of intelligence, and the same thinking and learning styles. The problem occurs when a kid with a vastly different level of intelligence and/or a vastly different thinking and learning style is put into this system. The kid is a square peg, and the educational system keeps trying to hammer that very square peg into one of its very round holes. The square peg won’t fit, can’t fit, and will only get its corners crushed.

A kid in that situation will either act up or shut down. The one who acts up will be labelled a troublemaker and disruptive, and will get a lot of negative attention that way. The kid who shuts down will be regarded as a model student and a quiet little angel, but will be dying inside, especially since being so different acts as a magnet for other kids who want somebody to pick on. I was that quiet little angel in school (one of the worst public schools around, which taught to the lowest common denominator, and in there, that was extremely low), but at home, I was a wild one, always craving attention and acting up with tantrums and beating up my little brother. Finally, when things reached a crisis point (a 12-year-old shouldn’t be sleepwalking and looking for ways to kill herself), my parents took me to see Dr. Hawke, a brilliant pediatric specialist, who recognized the seriousness of the situation, and ordered that I be removed from that school as soon as possible. Back then (1981), there was no such thing as ADD or ADHD. All Dr. Hawke saw was that I was an extremely intelligent child in a situation that had me teetering on the brink of a complete nervous breakdown, and that if I didn’t get out of that situation immediately, it would be disastrous.

Transferred to a wonderful school (and a regular public one, at that) that challenged me, and encouraged kids to celebrate their differences, I began to thrive. This school had been partly built on an “open concept” of large double-ended rooms, with 2 classes back-to-back and a high wall (rather than a full wall) separating each room from the hall that supported them. This was a brilliant format, as we didn’t feel closed-in and trapped, and we were even able to subconsciously absorb what was being taught at the other end of the room. Unfortunately, since then, a lot of parents decided that it wasn’t an appropriate format, so the “open concept” was redesigned to standard closed classrooms.

Not only was the format different, but here, the teachers actually helped any kid who was being picked on. My first day, one boy picked on me, and I reported it to my teacher. Well! Unlike at my previous school, things happened, and they happened fast. My teacher took me to the principal’s office to report the situation. The principal took down a report, and sent me back to class. Then the boy got called to the principal’s office. And his parents got called to the principal’s office. That boy got in so much trouble. This had never happened at my previous school, where the teachers didn’t give a damn. Looking back, I feel sorry for that boy. I’m sure he only picked on me because he’d wanted to talk to me but didn’t know what to say. Like in Peanuts, when Charlie Brown is at the principal’s office because he had wanted so badly to talk to the little red-haired girl but didn’t know what to say, so he hit her.

My experience has shown me that it’s impossible to completely shape the world to fit us, just as it’s impossible to completely adapt to fit the world. What works is a series of compromises. And it’s never one-size-fits-all. Your first step should be a through diagnosis for your son, if he hasn’t already had one. This will take several hours, and it won’t be cheap. But it’s necessary to determine whether your son actually has ADD, or is just in the wrong learning environment. There are many kinds of regular schools and many kinds of alternative ones. You may have to look around (as my mom did) to find the right one for your child. And you may have to make sacrifices. My mom had to drive me to and from school, 20 minutes each way. Sure, just putting me on the bus to a local school would have been a lot easier, but it wouldn’t have been right for me.

And after seeing how I thrived in my new school after just one term, my mom had my brother transferred there too. He was lucky enough to spend most of his formative years at the good school, because he was only in Grade 2 when he transferred. I was in Grade 6, so by then, the damage was done and had to be repaired. Maybe that’s why his EQ is so much higher than mine.

Since you’re doing all this while your son is only 7, when you do find the right solution for him, he’ll have many years to benefit from it.

Bona fortuna!

REPORT ABUSE

[Anonymous]

I am not surprised that of the high incidence of giftedness together with ADD. The higher threshold for engaging remembering things allows for less superfluous information to be stored. We may not remember a lot but what we do is vital.

REPORT ABUSE

[Anonymous]

I actually went to a seminar by Dr Russel Barkley less than a month ago. As I recall, people with ADHD have the same incidence rate of giftedness as the rest of the population. I could be totally wrong though. My brother and I both have above average and superior IQs respectively, for whatever that is worth. That is neither here nor there though, I believe.

The real trick is that many of the strategies that help children who are gifted also help children with ADHD and visa versa. Enriched programs, lots of structural supports that still allow for divergent thinking, a lively, fast paced program – these are all things that can benefit children with either giftedness or ADHD or both!

I am not saying your son is not gifted. It is entirely likely that he is! I will speak from my own experience involving medication and the gifted/ADHD combination though, if you’ll indulge me. While I have not yet found a combination of medications that work for me I have found that I am making great strides in my academic career since I started treatment. I developed a lot of anxiety throughout my school years as a result of my untreated ADHD and that comorbidity is what is complicating my search for the right medication. I was in karate, I had a challenging academic program, I had a supportive environment at school and (most of the time) at home and I still developed this anxiety. I think if I had the medication a lot earlier then I would have fewer problems now. There wouldn’t be this degree of academic burnout.

I don’t think you should look at medications as a last resort. They really do help. They are safe and they won’t turn your child into someone that he is not. Rather, I think you should look at medication as a COMPONENT of your child’s treatment along with a structured learning environment and enrolling him in karate. A multidimensional treatment like this would do wonders, I think.

REPORT ABUSE

[Anonymous]

Lots of good advice, folks!

Our oldest son was identified as “exceptional-gifted” not long after starting kindergarten, and because of this, had an IEP in place with strategies and accommodations until he got to high school, when it was deemed that he was “at level” and no longer required the IEP.

At the same time, we were advocating testing for our youngest child for “giftedness” as well as a learning disability. We got a lot of raised eyebrows from his teacher and principal when we told them we suspected he may be gifted (like his brother), but that something else appeared to be going on as well. After changing schools, the new principal got the ball rolling and he was finally diagnosed ADD-inattentive, though the IEP and strategies didn’t happen until last year.

Now that we have been working with him more intensively, his older brother has just begun the evaluation process to determine whether he may also have ADD (likely inattentive type). Ironically enough, it seems the symptoms typically start becoming more evident around the same time that his IEP would have been discontinued.

The journey continues … (sigh)

REPORT ABUSE

[Tim]

That web site has an interesting take on things but I think it is really saying something that we all know: other things can look like ADHD so the assessment needs to be carefully done. Good advice I think.

I think though, that treating something like ADHD has a lot to do with helping someone reach his or her potential and a lot of that has to do with navigating society. As Larynxa has pointed out, IQ and EQ both matter. While I would never suggest transforming a square peg into a round one (probably impossible anyway) shaving down the corners a bit can make life a lot better.

I really was a square peg from the beginning. Born in 1953, I was identified as gifted in Grade 3. I did Grades 3&4 in one year and then spent Grades 5-8 in an advancement class. I was a poor student then and in high school. I was an outsider who was bullied and beaten up a lot. I later went on to get a PhD but never found work that required it. I recently found my old report cards and other correspondence and it was thought by the school that my hyperactivity, inattention and other classic ADHD symptoms would disappear were I to be challenged. That never happened.

Life for me has been a trail of drifting, unemployment, emotional incompetence, sadness and potential unfulfilled. I was referred to as lazy in my report cards and I’m sure that some of my friends, knowing some of my potential, think so too. Hell, I thought so too for a long time because so many things were left uncompleted or even unstarted. I’ve long thought that others negotiated life a lot more easily than I do. It’s as if they were walking on a level sidewalk while I always seemed to be walking uphill in mud up to my ankles. I never knew why.

I should add that it hasn’t all been bad. I have some great friends who accept my quirks. If I need to, I can learn something quickly and I can do many things very well. In spite of it all, I’m sure some of you would happily trade your problems for mine.

It was on the evening of September 18 last year (John Diefenbaker’s birthday — oh yeah, mine too) that I switched on the TV after too many beers at the pub and saw my life being described in amazing detail by Rick and Patrick. The next time I saw my GP I started the assessment process and it seems now that I’m a rather classic case of adult ADHD. Thanks guys for a great birthday present!!!

So, my point, finally, is that if your child is having difficulties that look like ADHD, something needs to be done. I present a précis of my life as an example of untreated ADHD. There may be some point in our evolutionary history at which what we now call ADHD was an advantage, given how common it is, but in the context of our society, it is not. If a medication makes life easier then I really think that it should be considered. If educational enrichment helps that’s great. The good thing is that it can all be reassessed at any time.

Mmarcel, I wish all the best for you and your son. Good luck in your quest.

REPORT ABUSE

[Anonymous]

Ahhh, here I go again! I’m in the education field (I’ve done SpecEd Behaviour and just regular stream classes) and MOST of us do the best we can with what is available to us. My poor DH is probably still reeling from my recitation of my ‘day’ after I arrived home this evening. Yes, I work late since I’m classic ADHD. If it takes me hours to get prepared, so be it.

When we identify a student who we feel needs an ed-psych assessment we immediately bring them up for an inschool review (ISRC) hoping to get things rolling in that direction. We’re asked about what strategies we’ve tried, told to try different strategies and to come back next month to report on the results once again.

Maybe, just maybe, someone will believe us that we’re dealing with a needy student who REALLY does have potential that is not being met because of circumstances beyond their control. Potential that could be met if we just did our part. Teachers all know that if we can get a specific diagnosis or needs identified that new doors and resources will become available for us to use or provide for our students.

Why is it so difficult to get things rolling? What are the issues? Money. It all boils down to budget. Who will the ‘lucky’ student be who gets that coveted psych assessment first? It’s decided by the criteria of who is the neediest/’bleeding from all orifices’ kind of needy. That’s where the good old waiting list comes into play. The names of students needing an assessment are put on the ‘to do’ list of the school’s psychologist as his/her time becomes available.

The names are shuffled and re-shuffled in their order while on that list. New, more needy students may move into the school and other needy ones may move away. My board only provides most schools with the service of a pscyhologist for one half day a week. A bigger school (mine has close to 1200 students in JK to Gr. will get ONE day a week from the psychologist. If you start number crunching you will see what the issues become.

The psych’s time is eaten up quickly since each assessment takes several hours (and the report writing for each assessment uses up those same allotted hours!), going over the report with the staff, meeting with the parents, and the ongoing follow-up for all the ISRC meetings to follow the student’s progress, and then all the IPRC meetings that the psychs need to attend take care of the last few minutes.

Today I had to deal with my little crew without the assistance of my ed assistant who provides support for my ASD student. He is NOT my only ‘needy’ student by a long shot. I stopped and considered the abilities of the rest of my group and was able to identify 7 students as what most would describe as a typical student. The other 13 are all disadvantaged for some reason or other. None of those disadvantages are due to financial reasons. Of course, the students wouldn’t cooperate and all arrive at school with the same kind of learning difference. That would just be TOO easy.

The gifted child? The possiby gifted child? The ADHD/gifted child combo? How do they all fit in this picture? Yes, they usually fall to the bottom of the classroom teacher’s pile but it’s not because we don’t care or don’t want to do better at dealing with them. Our problem is that we’re only one person and we’ve got a room full of other equally needy students…..or needier students than little Johnny. The student who still can’t identify their numbers (to 10) or their alphabet or write one word (even their name!) will demand our attention first.

13 needy students. 7 ‘able’ students. Who will get our attention first? They all want and deserve attention but the squeekiest wheel is the one that the admin will put to tthe top of the ‘list’. Only 3 or 4 students will be assessed each year (out of our entire school population) so only they will be able to access the extra resources that come attached with the diagnosis.

Yes, we’d love to put an end to bullies if we could but we’re having difficulty fighting the home-grown Me First, I’m # 1 NO Matter What syndrome that has so carefully been cultivated and instilled by so many of our parents. We can’t fight the bully battle alone.

Personally, I had a great day with my group of students and hopefully, they were all challenged according to their needs and abilities. It may please some of you to know (parents of school aged children) that when I tried to access some of the books and materials available on the latest effective stratetegies and techniques for use with an ADHD child that they were all unavailable.

Apparently there are a few other teachers out there who are also interested in doing all that we can for each of our ADHD students.

ADHD and gifted? A curious combination sometimes. A gifted child is often able to do very well with only fleeting moments of attention to a lesson being taught so they are able to stumble on through life. They certainly have an advantage over the ADHD student who is not gifted and comes with a has a learning disability. Life is sure not fair for those!

REPORT ABUSE

[Rick Green – Founder of TotallyADD]

Wow, some great answers here.

I have heard the 50% of Gifted kids statistic, but I can’t recall the study that was done. I’ll ask Dr. J to find it.

Basically, my advice in all of this is never lose sight of who your kid is, what their strengths are and what you love about them.

While I know some of the experts we have spoken to go a bit overboard with “it’s all about seeing it in a positive light.” there is great truth that our fears or concerns will seep into our kids. We’re not good actors. They can sense out fear.

So through all of this process, don’t get overwhelmed with fear. Let your child know that they are different, but that it can been a real advantage once they figure this out.

And take time to step back, laugh, and just play with your kid, and with your spouse, and enjoy life.

I remember when my kids were small… I was a neurotic mess. And I missed a great deal of their childhood because even though I was with them, I was really off in my head, with fear about what could happen, what might go wrong, what disaster might befall them.

I spent half my salary on toys, and games and educational gadgets and trips…

Then about a year ago my son told me his favourite thing in the whole world is sitting at Nana’s cottage, on a Saturday night, with bowls of chips and cheesies, and playing board games all night long.

Funny, that’s what I loved doing when I was his age.

REPORT ABUSE

[Mica]

My 9 year old son has the triple threat of ADHD, anxiety, and LD – the best thing that we ever did (other than putting him on meds) was to pay for his phych-ed assessment ourselves. The school couldn’t even put him on a waiting list until he was a full 2 years behind and we were busily doing our best to keep him from falling that far behind.

It’s the problem of identifying a bright child who’s far below his potential as opposed to an average child (if there is such a thing!) who is only slightly below. It was the phychiatrist and psychologist that we were seeing that urged us to go ahead and have the assessment done – they really knew how the system worked. I’m not saying that sacrifices weren’t involved and I feel very lucky that we were able to pay the $1500 – not an advantage that everyone has but definitely worth it if you have the resources.

REPORT ABUSE

[Anonymous]

Yeah, it might be in your best interest to get it paid for yourself, if you can afford it. My mom ended up doing that for my brother, because the assessment they did in the school missed the ADHD and diagnosed him as a slow learner (I.E. an IQ of around 80). Fortunately, my mom knew they were off the mark and took him to the Glenrose Hospital here in Edmonton and had him re-assessed. Turns out that he is a lot like Mica’s son but with Gifted, ADHD and LD as well as fine and gross motor skills problems. He has since developed other issues, but he would have completely fallen through the cracks of the system if my mom hadn’t taken him outside of it to get the assessment done herself.

REPORT ABUSE

[Patte Rosebank]

Hey, Rick, that sounds like the old joke/truism that on Christmas morning, the living room will be filled with the latest & greatest toys for the children of the family. And what will the children be playing with? The big boxes that all those toys came in!

My brother and I still remember the fun we had when Mom & Dad bought a new fridge, and let us play with the box. We set it up in the guest room, and turned it into a house/spaceship. Finally, after about 3 weeks, we’d killed it, so it went out with the trash. But those 3 weeks were some of the best we ever had!

But the absolute best time was the Saturday afternoon when there was a storm and a blackout, and when it was over, we all walked down the path behind the house, through the fields to the little creek which was usually a trickle, but after that storm was about a foot & a half deep. Splashing around, under the weeping willow tree, with the lovely post-storm smell of ozone in the air, and watching the sun set, was absolute paradise, and it didn’t cost a cent. Today, the whole area is one big subdivision. Joni Mitchell was right. You really don’t know what you’ve got ’til it’s gone.

REPORT ABUSE

[Rick Green – Founder of TotallyADD]

Hey Larynxa,

Not only is it true that… “You don’t really know what you’ve got till it’s gone.” but when you realize it’s gone, you can spend so much time in regret, sorrow, mourning, beating yourself up, angry at the lost opportunity, etc. etc. etc. that you now miss another day that’s passed you by. Or a week. Or a decade.

ADHD can show up in contradictory ways. Sometimes we get stuck in emotion, and other times we seem to bounce back fast. We don’t hold grudges. Or we get stuck on being right and wanting to prove it, and imagining all the smart things we could say to that Loudmouth at the party who spewed all that nonsense.

I sometimes think that for every conversation I had with a girlfriend I had about 40 in my head. Either preparing what I was gonna say and how it was going to go, or re-imagining what I could have said and how it could have gone.

REPORT ABUSE

[Anonymous]

Tim posted this little gem: “I recently found my old report cards and other correspondence and it was thought by the school that my hyperactivity, inattention and other classic ADHD symptoms would disappear were I to be challenged. That never happened.”

I’ve been thinking about that whole “he’s not being challenged” thing for the past few weeks. People said that about me to explain my “C” work in school. We were graded in 6-week periods, and my report cards in some subjects might read ABC-CAD giving me a C+ or B- average for the year, depending on final exam grades. They always blamed the fluctuations on my being easily distracted, Christmas, the weather, or “NOT BEING CHALLENGED.”

The truth was that I was making the A’s doing stuff that came easily to me but not to others. The teacher’s perception was that I was as “challenged” by it as the other kids were, and THAT was the reason I was “APPLYING MYSELF.” I don’t remember ever “applying myself” at anything. I either liked something or I didn’t. I put in about the same effort no matter what.

The only thing that challenges me is boredom. Maybe I did better when the material was more difficult because the teacher knew it was tough and worked a little harder to hold our attention? It all came out of the same textbook, didn’t it?

I could always sense it when a teacher was “phoning it in.”

REPORT ABUSE

[Tim]

This web site is truly helpful in my process of figuring out where I’ve been and how I’m going to take back my life. I often though that I remembered only about 10 minutes of my childhood so it’s interesting how comments made by others here have triggered memories that were long dormant.

DogFather, I had forgotten completely how many times I had been told to “apply myself”. My marks were all over the place too. I would have As and Fs on the same report card. Some things were interesting and came easily but I remember the deep deadly boredom of the subjects that didn’t interest me. “If only Tim would apply himself …” was something I heard far too many times. The interesting thing is that were comments in the early grades (2,3,4) about how much knowledge I brought to the class from my outside reading. I wasn’t “applying myself”, I was just doing what I enjoyed.

Your last sentence brings back memories too. The phone in my parents’ house was the classic Northern Electric model 500 that everyone had. Too many times the distinctive ring would be the start of another episode of being yelled at, called lazy and told to, well, you know. For years my guts would tighten at the sound of a telephone bell and for most of my 20s I refused to have a phone in the house. I inherited that phone along with my report cards a couple of years ago and decided that I would plug it in to see what would happen. Fortunately time has softened the response and it is still plugged in. I even enjoy using the dial as long as there aren’t too many 8s, 9s, or 0s in the number.

REPORT ABUSE

[Tim]

Rick,

You wrote above:

“Not only is it true that… “You don’t really know what you’ve got till it’s gone.” but when you realize it’s gone, you can spend so much time in regret, sorrow, mourning, beating yourself up, angry at the lost opportunity, etc. etc. etc. that you now miss another day that’s passed you by. Or a week. Or a decade.”

Your comment is wise although I fell less like “You don’t really know what you’ve got till it’s gone.” than “You now realise what you might have had but it’s gone.”

I’ve been on this kind of trip before and I’m determined not to let feelings like those that you have listed get in the way of turning things around. I think what you are describing is grief at the loss of a part of your life. It’s a huge loss and it is very natural and reasonable to feel grief. For many of us there are dreams that have to go from the “To Do” list into the garbage can simply because the stage of life where they made sense has passed. For others, the aftermath of impulsive decisions needs to be dealt with. Most have taken a real financial hit over the years and who knows how many have ended up with criminal records. It is all part of the “Emotional Journey” that you have used as a label part of this site. I think it’s a necessary journey but one that shouldn’t last too long.

I mentioned to a friend a week ago that I am now looking forward to the future as I never have before. I want to live a life that’s less scattered, get on with dreams that make sense, make some new ones and be that person inside who wants so badly to get out. I don’t really know what all of this looks like yet but it’s got to be better than where I’ve been.

REPORT ABUSE

[Author]

Posts