NJ-Employer's comments

[Anonymous]

My son works at a car dealership (big name) as an entry level mechanic. His is ADD is currently takes medication. He did not disclose to his manager when he was hired. There have been on occasion when he is not in his bay and waiting on parts at the parts counter, or taking a car for a test ride, in the bathroom etc… a lot of little things. Yesterday he forgot to write the space number of where he parked a customer vehicle and he reprimanded him in front of the woman and other customers asking what was wrong with him and did this while at the parts counter asking what was wrong with him and if he has a problem following processes. He went on to say (not in front of the customer)s but in a room with 2 other people in management) do you have some sort of chemical imbalance (very nasty) that you can’t follow processes, whats wrong with you…….My son is almost 20, he was almost in tears and said “actually I do and I take medicine for it” he then said I don’t give a shit that’s not my problem and you better straighten up” the other 2 people in management had to tell this person to stop and just talk normal. My son came home devastated……….As a mother of a son this age, I feel helpless because I cannot get involved. Any suggestions on if my son should setup a meeting with his manager regarding what he did and said and if so, what should my son say……… I very much appreciation any suggestions

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[Wgreen]

Others will give you advice. All I can say is this: While ADD is not difficult to explain, it is EXTREMELY difficult for people to understand. (We’ve had this conversation before on the forum.) Most people simply cannot wrap their heads around the idea that motivation, organization, emotions, and behavior cannot always be regulated with willpower. It just doesn’t compute. MOREOVER… conceding that premise would be tantamount to a grenade exploding in that place where their deepest religious/philosophical notions reside.

So, where does that leave us? For my part, I have come to understand that 1) I’m not going to change many people’s minds and 2) most people really don’t want to hear me talk about ADD. They’re either disinterested or annoyed. As a consequence, I try to keep my mouth shut—except here, where at least some people are on my page.

Good luck.

P.S. I don’t think ADD excuses us from life’s responsibilities. Like everybody else, we have to take ownership of all we do and say. What PERHAPS it does do is relieve us of some of the burden of moral culpability. Unfortunately, most employers are not interested in moral culpability, or the lack thereof; they’re interested in providing a good product and excellent customer service. Lots of ADDers sit on the employment sidelines not because they don’t try, not because they don’t want to be model employees, but because they just can’t deliver what employers justifiably demand.

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[nellie]

Wgreen I feel as you do. But I’ll jump into it with advice anyway!

I’m not sure that the issue here is really the ADD but more so the behaviour of the manager. Of course your son’s habits may be easy fodder for this volatile bully manager but your son could easily be someone else. This sort of behaviour is essentially harassment . I would suspect that not only your son is on the receiving end of this guy’s explosive temper. Problem is of course whether or not your son has any power to change anything. If the company culture is such that this bully is likely to keep his job regardless of any complaints, perhaps your son is just better off quietly looking for another job. Not easy either but there are some battles you just have to back away from.

On the other hand, If your son want to stand up to this guy then I would go over his head and make a complaint. Is there an HR type person he could talk to? Just talking to this bully doesn’t seem like a viable option to me if your son isn’t used to being his own advocate. They are not on equal footing so the bully is likely to be able to get away with whatever he wants to.

I have a child with ADD that age as well and know how difficult it is to just stand by but sometimes our moral support is all we can offer while they sort things out on their own.

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[JimC.]

I’m with Nellie, and think of this as bullying. URLs won’t work on these pages so Google “how to handle a bad boss” or similar and note the advice. From where I stand, this isn’t any different than if YOU worked there and were being sexually harassed by the same manager…sometimes you can’t escape those types, and it may simply be time to go. Personally I have a poor short term memory so tasks like your son has mean failure for me, so I avoid that type of job if I can. If that manager is perceived as ‘valuable’ to the workplace, then he will stay at management’s direction. if he is perceived as an ongoing problem, then there may be hope to get your son some help. I’ll cut and paste what I can and insert below. Good luck! Jim

Recommended Approach to the Unwitting Bad Boss

Talk to this boss. Tell him what you need from him in term of direction, feedback and support. Be polite and focus on your needs. Telling the boss he’s a bad boss is counterproductive and won’t help you meet your goals.

Ask the manager how you can help him reach his goals. Make sure you listen well and provide the needed assistance.

Seek a mentor from among other managers or more skilled peers, with the full knowledge of your current manager, to enlarge your opportunity for experience.

If you’ve taken these actions, and they haven’t worked, go to your boss’s manager and ask for assistance. Or, you can go to your Human Resources staff first, to rehearse and gain advice. Understand that your current boss may never forgive you, so ensure you have done what you can do with him, before taking your issues up the line.

You may never hear what the boss’s boss or the HR staff did to help solve your bad manager’s behavior. It’s confidential. But, do allow some time to pass for the actions to have their desired impact.

If nothing changes, despite your best efforts, and you think the problem is that they don’t believe you, draw together coworkers who also experience the behavior. Visit the boss’s manager to help him see the size and impact of the behavior.

If you think the problem is that your boss can’t – or won’t – change, ask for a transfer to another department. This recommendation presumes you like your employer and your work.

If a transfer or promotion is unavailable, begin your search for a new job. Fleeing is always an option. You may want to conduct your job search secretly, but under the circumstances, it may be time for you to go.

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[ashockley55]

Why talk to someone who is clearly personality-challenged? That would be your son spinning his wheels, and further exposing himself to this nit-wit’s chastising. There’s a brick wall at the end of that road.

Have your son contact HR with this little basket of goodies:

Every employee has the right and reasonable expectation that they will not be harrassed on their worksite. Violation of those rights would point any clear-minded person toward taking legal action against those persons or companies involved in such violations. Your son, in addition, has a disability that is considered valid under the Americans with Disabilities Act which allows him certain extra, reasonable accomodations and protections that, if ignored, would be of grave consequence to the company that employs him. These rights are pertinent regarding any disclosed OR PERCEIVED disability. Clearly, your son’s supervisor perceived a disability, and instead of taking an attitude of accomodating that, he took on a stance of animosity. If the poor decisions and brash actions of this company’s one supervisor toward a disabled worker were to reach the media and become a blight upon said company, why…..

that would be most unfortunate, wouldn’t it?

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[Wgreen]

Now, people, let’s be careful when expressing legal “opinion”…

From About.com’s entry on the subject:

“The ADA does not contain a list of medical conditions that constitute disabilities. Instead, the ADA has a general definition of disability that each person must meet. Therefore, some people with ADHD will have a disability under the ADA and some will not.”

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[ashockley55]

Right, but ADHD is, in a sense, recognized, in that it isn’t just a bunch of “fooey” to them. Ie, ADHD is considered “valid.”

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[Cranski]

If your son does have at least two impairments listed by the ADA from ADHD its in his best interest to inform his employer. It is going to save a lot of hassle in the long run with employment.

People get upset. Thank goodness your son is an introvert because that can cause problems when you have a jerk of a boss.

As long as your son is a proletariat and providing his capable services for compensation then to err is human. There is no excuse for not rational approaching a problem in a collective manner to discuss what may have happened and seek out remedies to prevent future occurrences.

Your son cried from the confrontation. That could be social anxiety, lack of ability to delineate thought under pressure, or stress. It happens to the best of us. Reinforce the positive is the best a mother can do. You got a job, your trying your best, you not stooping to his level of aggression shows a lot on character. On the other hand it could be from your sons subconscious that he doesn’t have it under control completely or feel he is master of his mental domain. Sometimes we forget we struggle or to give ourselves pats on the back for the positives until we hit the wall and its to late. This could be a good thing for him in a sense of refocusing on the important things within himself.

Cryings good. Not letting it out is troublesome… Good job though. Supportive loving parents make all the difference.

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[Scattybird]

chester05 – it strikes me that this is a plain case of bullying so I’m in agreement with nellie and JimC. The creep should be disciplined – it’s unprofessional speaking to anyone like that and it’s an abuse of his power over your son.

There is an article on the pros and cons of disclosing whether you have ADHD at work on the ADDitude site at the moment. If you are unfamiliar with the site, Google ADDitude and then click on adult ADHD. It might be worth looking at.

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[Geoduck]

He’s in NJ, so covered under the Americans with Disabilities Act. His physician needs to help him get a “504” designation (see http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/civilrights/resources/factsheets/504.pdf). This will protect him, in the event he is discriminated against in the workplace, or eventually disciplined or fired.

That being said, if this place does not have an HR dept., or is owned by a family, this can be difficult. It sounds like it’s pretty big, though, and if it is, make sure your son’s 504 is on file with them. He will have to be proactive about this, which can be very hard for a 20 year old, who sounds like he may be embarrassed. The boss’s reaction did not help at all.

Still, get that designation on file. Without it, he has no protection. I’ve seen this happen in our school district with children. The school absolutely refuses help to some kids without the designation. I can imagine this asshat of a boss might do the same.

I’ve been subjected to “bully bosses” like this. It totally sucks. Unfortunately, even with the ADA protection, some people are just going to be asses to you. No-one should have to put up with abuse. However, yelling at an employee in front of customers, even though completely tasteless and bad business, is not illegal. He may actually have to quit. If the abuse continues, please help and encourage your son to quit and find work elsewhere.

I have a feeling that this guy, if two other managers told him to calm down, is on a short leash, himself. Still, get the designation, so he’s protected at least from being fired.

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[Anonymous]

Hello everyone,

I can’t thank everyone enough for posting!!! I say this with tears in my eyes because I thought these types of behaviors were done in life after having dealt through this all of my son’s years in grade school through high school. Never would I have imagined adults in the professional business world would act this way.

Through school my son did have a 504 plan and was given paperwork should he seek higher education after graduation which he will be using for going to college at night and taking his ASE Mechanics certifications.

I think going forward, I will have my son put in writing to his manager whenever he feels he needs help with a process at work, which he said he could use on a certain computer program he must use there.

I will also seek what Geoduck mentions and get a 504 designation (I have not heard of that in the working world).

So again, thanks to all of you kind people!

Mom

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[Anonymous]

This discussion has gone on a number times on this site…….and my response is always consistent ,but seeing as how this contains a trade apprenticeship element I thought I would contribute.

Chester05, do yourself a favor, read this, all of this!!!

Asking for concessions…..in the work place do to ADD or ADHD…..is dangerous “At Best”…..I know all of these lovely comments posted above are “in theory” correct……fact is, managers will usually mark those types of people….PERIOD!!! Manager must produce…they are driven by numbers from above……if you are incapable of producing those numbers for them they will systematically weed you out, their job and lively-hood is on the line…and that’s the way the business world works!! I was on a management team most of my career….I watched it happen over and over, and over again….I found it terribly distasteful and low, but……that is how it works….law/legal disability, or otherwise…..sad but true!! Also, if you complain about the manager to their manger above them, that manger will go to the wall for the manager below in question….it will go that way…. all the way up the pipe!!! Believe me, that’s how it works ALWAYS!!! They will systematically take an employee apart, ware them down until they leave….it’s nasty to watch.

Next going to HR……let’s not kid ourselves HR is anything but “Human” they are there to either get the most out of the work force OR cull what they term “dead wood, in a legal systematic way…….they are there to keep the troops efficient and lean……they are a management tool despite whatever the propaganda from the is. I’ve watched HR and Management at work……that’s why often HR reports directly to the CEO……they are not there for the staff…they are a resource management tool!!! They guide management in getting a person worn down and out the door…don’t kid yourself!!

Sorry these are truths and come from experience, not opinion, so if you are considering advising you son to take the “OUTTING HIMSELF” concession path, do so with your eyes open…….it is seldom a satisfactory choice for the employee……very seldom…..EVER!

Also be aware of a few more things….your son is an apprentice….in a male dominated testosterone laden workplace and as such has a few things to do.

1. He has to learn to live and work in a male dominated testosterone environment…..it is tough…..real tough, men make it so!!!

2. He has to learn to take the hard knocks handed out to him without a whimper…….and how to navigate through that.

3. He has to understand Senior Journeymen…long standing experts in his field, consider him not much higher standing than something stuck on the bottom of their boot…….he will likely viewed with contempt at best……he is a pain in their ass…TRUE!!!

4. He needs to acknowledge he is the bottom of the totem pole, and as such gets no respect….NONE, he hasn’t earned it…..so, give up your social equality views…. it does not exist in the real world and certainly not in that environment.

5. Apprentices will be assigned every shitty job, every dirty nasty bit of work that comes down the pipe….and be expected to man-up and do it, and do it well, without bitching or whining……..there are many tests for apprentices….most of them are on the job and come not from school but from gaining respect from senior Journeymen in their work environment…..also true!!!!

6. Apprentices are also a money loser for years….and years…..it takes a long time to be worth anything to a Company….a long time, they certainly have no value in comparasion the the manager they about to fight with….forget it!!

Men in the trades are tough and there are rights of passage…….”Man Tests” that all must go through….so be cautioned that taking a “letter from Mommy” to work…….will likely be viewed just like that…. and may do irreputable damage!!!

You may not like this response but it is true…..I’m 62 (retired), and educated and spent most of my career in management….but as I said, I started my career working as a tradesman……about 8 years…..I was surrounded by all trades….this is not my personal slant…….this is what I observed as consistent behavior!!!! So think long and hard about how you want to advise your son………

Better yet find a man….any tradesman that has been on the tools for years and years…..ask him….tell him what you just read, and ask him if it is true……you may be shocked.

Toofat

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[ashockley55]

All of what Toofat said may be true.

My question is, do we want any of this “testosterone driven,” “male dominant” behavior to continue to be true?

So sad how man/men/testosterone was mentioned throughout Toofat’s post in regards to horrible workforce behavior that is lacking in compassion and, in my opinion, sustainability for the future.

Man up? I say, disMANtle.

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[Geoduck]

Chester05…you know, maybe it doesn’t exist in the working world. I guess I just assumed that. The blind gal I worked with mentioned it. But she was just out of HS, so maybe she was referring to that. I do know there has to be some sort of documentation, and just assumed she knew what she was talking about.

Seriously, guys, double check everything I say! LOL!!!

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[Anonymous]

There maybe things in this world we do not, or cannot understand………truth be known…..there are many things in this world that male testosterone driven behavior provides, but I feel that type of conversation is not really appropriate for this format.

Fact……Ch05 simply requested suggestions……..asked and provided!!

I hesitate… but… maybe, an appropriate a response to you Ash55 is…… “judge not…… lest ye be judged’??? After all….we here have at one time or another, likely felt the sting of judgment…..yes?

Toofat

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[Author]

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