NJ-Employer's comments

[Geoduck]

Toofat does have some points. I like ashockley55’s better.

I worked for women who would blow up like this. They were trying to get ahead in corporate America by acting like the guys. Guess what, they never got ahead. So accepting this sort of crap does not mean anyone’s situation improves at all. Amen, Sister!!!

Who cares about being “marked,” Toofat? The kid is like 2 seconds from being fired, here. He’s already “marked,” and that’s without saying much at all about his condition. Sounds to me like his boss is also “marked,” because of his insensitivity, and also because of calling out workers in front of customers. Really bad move on the boss’s part. That gives this kid just a teensy bit of power, here, which I say he should exploit. The other two bosses sounded like they were on his side, after he “came out.” Work that angle, kid. Feel these other guys out, carefully (because again, Toofat has some points, there), and see how much support you can get.

But yes, Toofat is right, the working world really, really does suck, and you do have a certain amount of lump-taking to do, no matter what your gender or occupation, but particularly in the trades.

REPORT ABUSE

[Robbo]

Well I didn’t read all of the replies to this post. But it seems to be a fairly simple case of the person in authority abusing that authority. This is the same toxic oppressive corruption that has always existed in the world. Cultures will change, many of the corrupt will be stripped of their powers. But we are some of the same people that replace those corrupt A-holes. We loose our temper just the same. I got fired for being that kind of boss when I was only about 19. By a boss who was much more cocky, abusive, arrogant, and disgustingly human than I was.

We can dismantle a screwed up business, or system. Or even a government. But human beings will still be involved in the rebuild. Human beings will always be subject to greed, anger, envy, prejudice, etc. Fortunately we all get to pick out battles. The guy needs to make a decision, no matter what he chooses, there will be a risk. He’s gonna have to learn how to deal with people like this di#$ head boss. It’s nearly impossible to avoid people with problems. Especially anger problems.

We generally disappoint each other, and fall short of what our culture expects out of us. This really pisses them off. Fortunately, we can learn to forgive each other, and forgive ourselves.

This thread helps me stick with a solid decision I’ve struggled with. Should I tell everyone I have ADHD?. Well, for now, it’s got to be no. Later, when I suffer much less from the symptoms that make me harder to live with, and I have real hope that I can do more to help people like us to live a better, less lonely life. Then yes.

If I were cornered and had to give advice about letting my own ADHD be considered when struggling to keep a job. I’d say forget it!. Do whatever it takes to either do a better job, get a better job. Or try to communicate with the boss if I think there’s anything I can ask the boss to do differently. For example. Come up with a new policy or procedure in the work place that makes it easier to remember small details like writing down a space #. A pen on a string and a clipboard that’s impossible to miss for example.

“Man up” is nothing more than a simple term, it means Grow up!. it’s also true that when working in an environment like a large scale building project. As an apprentice carpenter I got treated like the dangerous walking safety hazard that I was. Older carpenters screamed and yelled at me about safety rules because most of them needed to be learned the first time, those same old farts had already watched too many young rookies die, or become disabled because some other boss was a little too gentle about making him keep his hard had on. There simply isn’t time to be nice in real world, especially if the boss is undiagnosed ADHD and without patience.

We can change the world, but it’s a process people have already been working on for ever. We won’t see anything become perfect in this lifetime. We do get to see real progress, and I’m learning to be satisfied with that.

Hormones just make our lives more interesting. More animated. I would die from boredom if I didn’t have testosterone flooding my arteries now and then, I wonder how much difference there is between testosterone and adrenaline?. I know I’ve been guilty of enjoying both of them too much, many times. The more I “Man up” the better I am at handling all the other explosive hormones that affect us as human beings.

When we announce to the world that we have ADHD. We are also demonstrating to that world exactly what they can expect in the future from a person who claims to have ADHD.Will I hurt that next person, or will I help them?.

Right or wrong, the realities of the work place are the way they are. Bosses will assume we are the same as the first 2 or 3 ADHD people they fired. Plain old prejudice and ignorance will be in our way for a very long time in this world. It’s better to be happy, than to be considered right in my opinion.

Fortunately, I’m nearly always right!. lol. at least in my own mind that is…

REPORT ABUSE

[ashockley55]

Robbo, good points.

I do have to say, that “Man up” as it is used to mean “Grow up” is highly offensive to women. It implies that mature, emotionally stable behavior is exclusive to the male of the species.

(Robbo, I’m not accusing you of being offensive, or even of using the term yourself, just reading your post made me think of another thing to say.)

Also, Toofat, regarding “judge not.” This isn’t about judging. This is about what behaviors we tolerate in our workplaces. I think the wrong suggestion here would be to “take the hard knocks without a whimper.” Even the connotation of the word “whimper” implies that anyone who would speak up against what is unprofessional, non-productive behavior is childish, is a crybaby. That sounds exactly like the kind of language and qualifying that would be used by a bully to shut up his target.

Sure, as Robbo said, sometimes you have to be gruff. If the new guy with lesser experience wants to risk not wearing a helmet, I can see a manager or another employee shouting, getting in the guy’s face, same as I can see and understand a parent who doesn’t believe in corporeal punishment rather roughly grasping and pulling their child away from the danger of an oncoming car.

What we’re talking about here, though, sounds like a supervisor speaking to an employee in a way that is out of line. Your post illuminates the reality of the situation as it exists, however I still contend that just because this is what was, and what is, doesn’t mean it should continue to be; it shoudn’t be tolerated, despite what has previously been tolerated in male-dominated trades.

REPORT ABUSE

[Anonymous]

Sure understandable….however that being said, the initial request was simply for “information”……..and like it or not, my accounting of the potential workplace hazards in this type of situation is accurate….likely, and therefore relevant.

It is easy to take the “high road” and get all morally indignant, and self righteous over socially unjust issues, (it costs nothing) but, the fact is, this is some person’s job….their income, their lively hood, and weighty life decisions such as the one these folks are trying to come to grips with……. need to have all sides of the situation presented ( maybe minus our own personal emotional bias) in order to make a well informed decision of this magnitude. It would appear Chester05 has enough emotional issues running already??? Facts……good information, potential consequences….etc etc may well be the key to their decision making process.

Anyway that’s my two-bits for what it worth……….

Toofat

REPORT ABUSE

[nellie]

Well as unpleasant as Toofat’s view of the world may be he is right. And while I don’t condone that sort of behaviour ( the bad boss’s not Toofat’s !) the fact remains we don’t actually have a right to a particular job. Despite labour codes which may assure certain worker rights in terms of wages, hours etc. the reality is that businesses exist to make money not our lives more pleasant. Now that said of course, if you need a job you have to search for the best tradeoff. As Toofat pointed out the trades are tough and you are not likely to encounter a supportive environment. This may not be the best place to be if the corporate culture is already showing itself be problematic at the get-go.

REPORT ABUSE

[Robbo]

We do enjoy a benign almost utopian atmosphere and culture in this web site community. I have been accused of having a unrealistic view of how I would like the world to become. That ain’t no crime. And this was a bunch of years back. Before our economy went down the crap hole and most of the wealth that was spread around mostly to the middle class and the ruling class has now been (RATS!!!, don’t ya hate it when a word ya need just disapears from the brain?) BRB. gonna get coffee. LOL, Wow, I almost put the keyboard down and it popped back into my consciousness. The word: Hoarders!. The top 20% own about 80% of the wealth. A very rough and probably less than accurate stat. I’ve heard lately. Very much like the depression, we’re in deep doo doo these days. I never thought I would feel this grateful to be disabled. I sometimes feel extremely guilty too. That’s dumb, I know it. But it’s easy to understand people who resent disabled people who look healthy enough to be out working somewhere. The truth is I could run just about any pizza place like a champ, I bet I could even do the books and make bank deposits that are counted correctly!. But I would be working for free. The government would get pretty much anything above what I’m already living on. That’s because I live in low income housing, my health care costs, and prescription costs would go up. And I would be taking a job that someone else not on disability income needs more than me. It’s smarter to spend my time doing volunteer work. I’ve always found it very easy to live on very little money. I just don’t go shopping very much. That’s the whole trick. Volunteer work sucks if you go around telling people about what you do. So just be curious okay?.

I decided to take the ritalin this morning. I used to be able to tell much more clearly when it was working and when it’s not. But it’s more likely that I’m just fed up with taking medications in general. Especially medications I didn’t need. I think it’s helping me this morning. I don’t really feel like making coffee anyway. Water is better for me.

So… back to the topic of terminology and not necessarily what we say, as how we say it. Depending on how it is said. A woman can say to another, “Man up”, and not be offensive if they happen to know each other really well and know that no disrespect is meant to be communicated. “Go Girl” sounds better though, huh?. What’s the difference?. It depends on what we think we hear. What we’re afraid to hear. And the truth. Our culture still sucks a lot. That’s life.

That being said. When men are working with men, we tend to be a bit more gruff and we also feel free to let our testosterone flags fly. As politically incorrect and offensive as that may be. It is so. It’s just as okay for “girls to be girls” in the work place. I’ve worked in offices where I was the only man, and in a wheelchair ta boot. Talk about feeling out of place. That sucked!. Mostly because they all did better than me. I couldn’t concentrate on the stuff directly in front of me. And I was going absolutely insane because all I wanted to do was get up!!!. off topic again…. grr.

I have a daughter. The last thing in the world I want to see her go through is to be marginalized simply because she is female. The crap of the matter is still the same. We still have much progress to make in our different cultures around the world. The way they treat women in places like Afghanistan is an absolute crime against humanity. What I don’t get is how men let their daughters be treated the way they do. It really pisses me off. I just have to pick my battles, and fight them well. Right?.

It’s okay to be pissed off about that ashockly, and how you feel matters to us. I’m guessing you already know that you have our respect around here. I will continue to think of you as the happy smiling person in your avatar that you are. I also encourage you to keep on speaking your mind, change is and will keep on taking place as long as people keep on speaking up as injustice and oppression keep taking place. This is not a case of male female conflict. It’s about letting people know about our ADHD or not. We all have buttons. And that ain’t no crime. Crap, I got em all over me. N chips on my shoulder too.

I still think it’s a bad idea to announce my ADHD to just about anyone. It’s a big risk and I also believe that the more I focus on what’s wrong, what I’m struggling with. The more of my energy that problem sucks out of me. K, off boxtop.

Late last night watching PBS I saw a really cool “self help” seminar. I’m getting really fed up with the endless procession of self help guru’s that give us the same recycled wisdom over and over again. I gotta admit though. I do need to be reminded. The one last night was just great!. A dude by the name of p-=[;’- Whoops…. put keyboard down to go get my note…. Looks artistic, huh?

The guys name is Shawn Achor. His book: The Happiness Advantage. I almost got the DVD, of the show, but it will be on a few more times. Keep an eye out for it you guys. This guy is SUPER COOL. And it’s rare for me to get enthusiastic about these new age self help guru people, mostly, they’re out to take my money. I’ll go ahead and get his book today, watch the documentary a few more times, just like I did ADD and Loving It?!. I just called the bank for my checking balance this morning. I’m doing good money wise. So I may get the DVD next time it’s on. I called my PBS station about getting ADD and Mastering It. They don’t have it available yet. If I really wanted it I could get it from the pbs station in the bay area. Nah, I think I’ve been focusing on the problem long enough. And I have enough of the solution in my head to keep me making progress for a while. After this Happiness Advantage book. I’ll get the Lazy, Stupid, or Crazy book. It’s a plan!.

Crap, how did my post get so big again? oh well. At least I’m not making a mess out of what I’m trying to say as bad as I did 11 months ago. Sheesh. It’s embarrassing when older posts of mine pop up and humble me the way they do. I can just stick a pen between my teeth and I’ll feel better.

Here’s a fun challenge for you guys this morning. Or when ever you read this. Take a pen, a pencil. A toothbrush, any old thing and stick it between your teeth and see how long you can hold it there without grinning and thinking of me grinning back at you. LOL!. That’s one of the oldest “happiness” tricks in the book. But I need to be reminded. When my daughter was little, if she looked bored. I would manually pry up the sides of her mouth with a couple gentle fingers. Kinda push them up, and guaranteed she would grin. I didn’t know it at the time, but inside that pretty little brain a dopamine spicket got turned up for a few seconds and she usually perked up and found something fun to do with her time. So if you’ve got someone at work who’s a real prick like the boss we started talking about above. Walk right up to them next time they’re in a crappy abusive mood. And manually pry up the sides of that frowning face. See what happens. At the very least a bunch of other folks in your work place will quickly walk away trying not to let the boss see the grin they can’t wipe off of their face. hehe.

Go ahead, make my day. ***chuckles proudly***

Happy Friday you guys. Knock em dead today, ukay?

9-21-12

Get a load of this guy! he’s great! n funny too. And has a little sister who thinks she’s a unicorn!. He even talks a little bit about us too. We’re that dot on his graph, (possibly?) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXy__kBVq1M If you really listen, you might realize that he’s talking about ADHD. And how we can naturally get more dopamine flowing in our noogins.

REPORT ABUSE

[Geoduck]

Woah. Robbo, long post. LOL!

I believe the female version is “Cowgirl up!” Which is weird, unless you go to Oklahoma State University, then it suddenly makes sense.

In general, I don’t find the term offensive, if used to mean, “Stop yer whinin’.” However, when “man up,” is used to tell someone that they have to put up with abuse, sorry, that’s just plain wrong, and that’s where it becomes offensive.

This boss has crossed the line between normal “hazing” type behaviors, and straight into abuse. Unfortunately, with jobs, people sometimes have to deal with this, because we need to pay rent (been there). However, this kid has his parents who are willing to stand by him. So, no, he doesn’t have to put up with it.

Look, it takes a lot for people like us not to put up with crap. We’ve been doing it all our lives. I’m not the only one here that spent a lot of time working on not being a doormat. Telling this kid he has to be one, especially in an abusive situation, just ain’t right. Helping him learn to set boundaries and learn what is normal and what is abuse will go a long way.

God, I’m talking like an Okie. Too many years in spent in Oklahoma. It’s infected my writing. Wow.

REPORT ABUSE

[Anonymous]

Well this seems to be a hot one……..let me take another route here.

Fact…..there is one side of a conversation..and only one presented….a second hand version of that as well!! We were not there to observe…..so to pass judgement on the boss based on third party hear-say may be a little preemptive……..I’m just sayin???

Fact… #1 Son is very stressed at catching hell from the boss, and, as such, is very emotional……not an assumption…I take that direct from the Chester05’s post.

Fact….Chester05’s Mom, is also very upset that #1 Son has been chastised by his boss……not just his boss but there is enough history there that two other managers were present……….we don’t know why????

So there is not a lot of unbiased information……other than #1 Son is in trouble yet again…..and there is history of not being at his work station or doing his job appropriately (MIA)….for what appears to be a number of reasons…….we don’t know details either way…..therefore I chose not to assume…history tells me, it usually it does not pay off!!

Another fact we can glean from the text is…. the boss likely overstepped his boundary with the med question…..(poor form granted)…but also we have no idea of the history involved……was the boss patient ( XXX )number of times previous….has there been polite correction and hints at what needs to be corrected ……we don’t know any of those things…..none!!!! Could this have been the boss’s exasperation point…..we simply don’t know!!

The only things we can take from Chester05’s post is… #1 Son was chastised for work habits, work habits seen as non-appropriate and non-productive that were directly negative customer affecting, and it is not the first time. Given this information chester05 asked for input on a course of action….. should #1 Son request a second meeting with his boss, should he tell his boss he has AD(H)D…..and indeed takes meds for it???? That’s all we know…….so….I stand by the information I provided…it is accurate, and the outcome I described….is more than likely!!! It comes from real life…information I have collected from years of experience……it is not…..NOT OPINION, but observation.

So I reiterate…….and caution Chester05…..

To bring AD(H)D to the table would likely be received as an excuse……I observe, most people interpret it as that…particularly after having been strongly chastised, or warned about unacceptable work habits. The chances of #1 son’s boss jumping up and saying Oh My Gawd…I didn’t know….how could I have…..sorry…what can I do…….that was awful of me…..please accept my apology are slim at best!!!!

It is not my mission to absolve anybody of less than gracious behavior……nor is it up to me to encourage anybody to throw themselves on their sword………..so Chester05 you will decide what you decide as a course of action….but me…… I usually wait until emotion has dissolved from the equation……I wait until fact and clarity have had time to settle in before I pursue a course of action…………it’s ultimately your decision and your sons consequences.

Important note: I believe there are a myriad of other options…….as usual…..this is not the sole path.

Toofat

REPORT ABUSE

[Anonymous]

Hi everyone,

Again, thank you to everyone for posting. Thank you TooFat for the replies, I have no ill will on the advise on the contrary agree with most. It has been a few days and we have had time to digest. Although I never said he would be handing notes to his employer from mommy, I said I would have my son put in writing if he thought he needed help with a process at work. When the boss screamed at him if he had a chemical imbalance or something, my son replied as I said “

We have had the talk with him many a time when he went into this field that he is the bottom of the totum pole and needed to prove himself and take all the advise from those who are there and have been there….

You are right this manager is all about the dollar and numbers as are all managers in his position and field and it is rewarded in his paycheck.

The other 2 managers under this boss were called in with my son because they are overlooking his work as well to see at what level he is producing and the quality of his work. As told by all three, his work is damn good and has a great future and they are giving sending him to brand specific training next year for certification. But, with the ADD he has a tuff time with some of the computer systems and being consistent about writing things on the paperwork and being mindful of processes like not waiting at the parts counter for a part, but he is to tell them he will return for it.

My son said this boss was in a highly agetated state that day and when he saw him walking from outside back to his bay, he didn’t even bother to ask where he came from. He had just taken a car he was working on for the quality check drive to make sure the problem was fixed, compounded by him having seen my son earlier at the parts counter and not having written a parking space number on paperwork. No more no less…

When the boss screamed at him if he had a chemical imbalance or something, I said my son replied “actually I do and I take medicine for it” my son never said specifically though it is for ADHD.

I also believe being in the blue collar field that going to the bosses boss or HR would only be self destructive, I have worked in Corporate America for 30 years and have seen similar incidents but are handled more diplomatically.

So when we talked to our son, we told him to bit him in the ass before he can do it to you. When you know your having trouble, go to him and use reverse psychology and make him feel as if he is a wealth of knowledge. What some people have some people lack, my son is hands smart and brain smart on mechanics but not paper smart.

I think I’ve covered more precisely what you mention here:

Fact….Chester05’s Mom, is also very upset that #1 Son has been chastised by his boss……not just his boss but there is enough history there that two other managers were present……….we don’t know why????

So there is not a lot of unbiased information……other than #1 Son is in trouble yet again…..and there is history of not being at his work station or doing his job appropriately (MIA)….for what appears to be a number of reasons…….we don’t know details either way…..therefore I chose not to assume…history tells me, it usually it does not pay off!!

Another fact we can glean from the text is…. the boss likely overstepped his boundary with the med question…..(poor form granted)…but also we have no idea of the history involved……was the boss patient ( XXX )number of times previous….has there been polite correction and hints at what needs to be corrected ……we don’t know any of those things…..none!!!! Could this have been the boss’s exasperation point…..we simply don’t know!!

I think you’ve read way too much into the scenario that happened, there were no xxx of time previous, no corrections, no hints, he has been told since by other mechanics that he flips out from time to time in the shop

As far as not doing his job appropriately or for what appears for a number of reasons, I’ve explained these

“He had just taken a car he was working on for the quality check drive to make sure the problem was fixed, compounded by him having seen my son earlier at the parts counter and not having written a parking space number on paperwork. No more no less…

My son has shared that he is paired with a senior mechanic to ask any questions he may have and this man has been very kind to my son and has given accolades to the three bosses regarding his hands on work.

So perhaps everyone has calmed down over the situation, although does not excuse the behaviors in any way to me. My son will work it out, as parents of children this age we can only listen, be the shoulder to cry on and give our advise.

I am glad I found this forum, I wished I had known about it while my son was in school…..

Have a great weekend everyone.

REPORT ABUSE

[Anonymous]

Well good on you Chester05……indeed you have more information than we do/did …….I’m glad you have a plan. Everyone I’m sure wishes you the best and #1 Son too……we do provide support the best we can…..with only the best of intentions.

Tell “JR” to hang in there…….apprenticeship is a tuff but rewarding road, and the Ol guys can be crusty for sure……hahahahaha…if he strays the course he’ll be one one day!!!! Hahahahahaha…..

Note: I also have an ADD son in apprenticeship….it is working for him….and as I’m sure you are…. I’m pleased too

Toofat

REPORT ABUSE

[Author]

Posts