August 9, 2012 at 4:40 pm #115335
WgreenParticipantAugust 9, 2012 at 4:40 pmPost count: 445
TooFat: We’re clearly on different pages. You apparently believe you are simply misunderstood (and perhaps oppressed) by people who subscribe to some sort of tyrannical “canonical” epistemology. Everything would be just fine if only the world were enlightened!
I completely agree that most people do, in fact, misunderstand ADD, including many clinicians. And I wholeheartedly agree that it would be enormously helpful if those false notions could be dispelled. But if you are really suggesting that enlightened thinking is all it would take to make the world a paradise for ADDers, then all I can say is that you don’t have the same ADD I have.REPORT ABUSEAugust 9, 2012 at 7:20 pm #115336
AnonymousInactiveAugust 9, 2012 at 7:20 pmPost count: 14413
Yes Wg…….the notion that we have different ADD traits is more than likely……..I would suggest it is almost a certainty, we are after all as different as snowflakes. Having said it does not negate consistent, irrefutable historical truth……none of which is anecdotal. I certainly cannot speak for all ADD people and would not presume to, but I do know, what once past for, what was known, taught, proven, wisdom is now looked on with a giggle and dismissed……'”well, that was then, we didn’t know”!!!! The converse is also true…those who would come forward with a new notion…..(like micro-biology)…were dismissed as madd……and were persecuted, jailed, ridiculed….etc etc.
The world evolves ever so slowly and change in thinking evolves at the same pace or worse. I’m not sure how can one possibly say their life would not be different, if it had not been different…..????? If one had even been taught, coached, mentored, revered…..for who they are, and their intellectual ability or personality traits……..who knows, or who can say how one may have turned out. They used to do psychological testing of that nature at one time…..but ethics/law now prohibits it. the results were frightening. As for enlightened thinking….without it we would still be clubbing our supper to death…..and living under a bush……it is what moves the world.
A simple present day example are the case(s) of the Romanian orphanages where current “medical” thinking was…. keep children fed, clean and warm and safe that’s all children need to flourish and grow…….the fact is many.children, most, became psychotic, physically stunted in growth, and intellectually/mentally backwards and worse. That took place recently…..in our present day world…..in modern times, in our time. So, before we start by buying in the “experts” expounding that a segment of society is “broken”…..and this segment needs to be fixed….or, they can actually be a danger…….we better making damn sure that society has first and foremost explored the other options. There are too many amazing examples of what can, and what does take place in the lives of ADD prone people, dyslexic people and even autistic people……to just summarily dismiss whole segments of society for being of “different intelligence” with a whole “different” set of learning requirements. Facts are $$$$$$$…….there appears to be no social will, and no profit motive…….better to repackage existing medication………well I’ll stop there…. that’s another discussion.
It is my contention (and nothing more) to do less is cruel, dismissive, and exemplifies the narrow scope of thinking that still permeates modern society. Don’t forget my previous three examples are from our life time (and not exhaustive) it is not past history…..it is who society was, and still is today..right now!!!!
hey……it quit raining……..I’m gonna go polish my bike…
ToofatREPORT ABUSEAugust 9, 2012 at 10:22 pm #115337
TiddlerMemberAugust 9, 2012 at 10:22 pmPost count: 802
I get where you’re coming from, toofat. How much of a problem would ADD be if, for example:
schools provided lessons based around what kids were actually interested in
schools provided fully multi-sensory lessons with practical work and lots of opportunities to move around
time management was treated as something that some people need support with (like having to catch a bus because you live too far away to walk)
kids were provided with lots of opportunities to evidence learning in non written form
no-one told us to ‘concentrate’ or ‘try harder’
no-one called us failures or stupid or lazy or irritating or liars or a burden
we got respect for our skills and talents (not some mystical gift proffered by the ADHD – just the real ones that everyone has if they are allowed to demonstrate them)
we were accepted as different, just like everyone else has something different about them too
there was simply no stigma to it
and so on and so on…
People who need wheelchairs sometimes get treated like this too but mostly people are coming round and understanding physical disability and the ramps are appearing. I’ve got brittle asthma. If I have a bad attack I could die. In the same way, I could just forget to look before I cross a road and the ADHD could kill me. I need the steroids or the ramp or the friend reminding me that I should really get my work done before the deadline looms – the support is not always as obvious as a ramp but it’s just as important.
I have a problem. I am comfortable with calling the ADHD a problem. It IS a problem to be unable to do so much of what other people take for granted. But it is true that much of the issue is that the expectations and demands of other people are not allowing me to demonstrate what I AM good at. Schools cripple people – a different approach could save so, so many people. And we wouldn’t be crippled by disability – we’d be dealing with a difference that can be a pain in the arse – that’s all.REPORT ABUSEAugust 9, 2012 at 10:51 pm #115338
WgreenParticipantAugust 9, 2012 at 10:51 pmPost count: 445
Nobody is arguing that ADD people are not great works of nature possessing immeasurable value. Nobody is saying they don’t have talents and extraordinary contributions to make. Nobody is saying they should somehow be marginalized by society. But it’s simply a fact that we have serious challenges— challenges that can create havoc in our lives, destroy our most cherished relationships, and leave our aspirations in shambles. That’s not the caustic verdict of some “linear” non-ADDer, that’s the damn truth. I’ve been there, done that, got the t-shirt. If some feel insulted by the suggestion that ADD is a debilitating disorder, I can assure you I’m insulted by the assertion that I must somehow have squandered the “gift” of an ADD brain and instead freely chose to screw up my life. So there we are.REPORT ABUSEAugust 9, 2012 at 11:07 pm #115339
TiddlerMemberAugust 9, 2012 at 11:07 pmPost count: 802
I don’t feel insulted by the suggestion that it’s a disorder. It is exactly that. I don’t think there has ever been anyone here suggesting that someone whose ADD has deeply scarred their life has squandered their ‘gift’ of an ADD brain? My ADD has fucked me over good and proper. But I’m done fighting to be more linear. I can’t turn back the tide. I can only try to learn how to ride it.REPORT ABUSEAugust 10, 2012 at 4:01 am #115340
ipsofactoMemberAugust 10, 2012 at 4:01 amPost count: 162
For me, this isn’t about trying to become more “linear” (sic). It’s about functioning better period. Whatever I do to overcome the deficits of regulation that ADD has inflicted on me, will not change the benefits of lateral thinking and creativity that seems to develop with ADD. It’s not realistic to think there will ever be some ADD utopia where we can just be our ADD selves. Even if there were, we would still not be happy with our unmaintained house, car and finances, and our broken relationships. Our best hope for happiness is to function as normally as possible.REPORT ABUSEAugust 13, 2012 at 5:23 pm #115341
BibliophileMemberAugust 13, 2012 at 5:23 pmPost count: 169
I still reject the notion that all ADHDers are gifted in terms of creativity and abstract thinking. The latter may come more naturally to us, but there is a difference between controlled brainstorming and including every thought or idea. Some have higher IQs, others don’t. We are all different people with gifts in a number of areas. Perhaps, ADHD people focus on their creativity because they have not excelled in other areas, i.e. the creativity is unconsciously developed as a coping mechanism to find some measure of success.
The world is what it is and we are the minority. I don’t like the term “linear” as it is saying that all non-ADHDers think the same way, which is equally as bad. It is not an us vs. them scenario. Instead of imposing a rigid framework on our lives, what is happening is that they can operate and succeed under these conditions and we, the minority, cannot. Now for some things this is not important, but if it is a question of getting work done and not meeting deadlines, we are the ones with the issue rather than it being the system’s fault for imposing dates at all.
Different ADHDers react to different learning strategies or workplace scenarios. Same applies to learning disabilities and other cognitive impairments. That being said, most workplaces are only going to accommodate so much or tolerate unrestrained behaviour to a certain degree. We cannot expect every school and workplace to customize the job/education curriculum to our personal needs to the very detail.
The impulsiveness is the key, I believe, in understanding the harm that ADHD can have versus a “linear” view. People will tolerate forgetfulness (except in the most extreme cases), and you can mitigate much of that through tricks, but impulsivity hurts people directly, including yourself. It causes financial, emotional and possibly even physical harm. For example, it is one thing to forget to bring sheets to a work meeting every time and another to say whatever is on your mind, whether it is rude or unhelpful at a meeting.
I like Tiddler’s comment about persevering in spite of the ADHD and adapting as best we can to what is expected from us from the rest of society and our employers. I put it slightly differently by thinking that I just have to try my best and pick myself up when I fail, which will likely be quite often, and repeat ad infinitum.REPORT ABUSESeptember 29, 2012 at 3:14 am #115342
AnonymousInactiveSeptember 29, 2012 at 3:14 amPost count: 14413
I am going to be 71 next month. At 50, when once again I got bored with my attempt to get a degree, I dropped out…and quickly got a call from an instructor who actually was the head of the L.D. Dept. She told me if I didn’t come to finalize my testing, she was going to come get me and that so intrigued me, I returned and finalized my tests. Those tests told me about my HIGH I.Q., which at first I disputed, but was quickly knocked to my knees when she told me I had ADD. Children had it I responded and was told, and children grow UP with it. I told my therapist that at that moment, I had the sensation of unzipping myself and who I really was, stepped out. I read, researched and finally started taking Ritalin…dramatic changes ensued. The response earlier from the law student (I don’t remember names…another ADD symptom), about expecting everything to be ok now was my own. I thought now that I have the answer, I’m going to be ok…and OK to some degree did happen. But OK all the time, even now, is a struggle. Working for someone is hell, like right now. Except, I went to work in 1992 for a company introducing a great new product, and since I am a terrific sales person (not hard core), I took that garment to heights they never believed would happen…as the product began to “take off”, I was given carte blanche and just on this product, their company made millions. Unfortunately they dumped me 9 years ago, stole several million dollars I have never been able to retrieve and fell back into depression. I also put on the over 50 pounds I lost. Today, this nightmare job I have has the same demon ears many of my previous jobs had…I don’t understand what the heck I’m supposed to do, I don’t understand what they are talking about and I feel stupid all over again. I am divorced many years…couldn’t even pick out the right guy…but when I’m the boss of my own business, MONEY FLOWS. I want to quit this job…today especially since everything was just upsidedown today…even got threatened with the loss of my job. I have attempted to explain I HAVE ADHD and this Company actually has meeting talking about the different ways to learn but, they don’t practice what they preach. I feel they threw me into the middle of the Ocean, expected me to quickly find land, and are outraged I’m still trying to find it. I have been probably much more successful in my life than I admit to but I want so much more, even at this age. I presume you all know that “we” are 30-40% less mental age than chronological age…I discovered that years ago when “on the road”, I attended a Russell Barkley seminar which once I heard that statement, answered the wondering why people always told me I was naive. So being 71, I’m really mentally 50…and am still thankfully healthy and strong and WANT with all my heart, to be the success I want. My ex was absolutely “ADHD”…what a mess he was and how shocked I was to years later, find out that was what was going on with him. I also just stopped dating, making friends because I didn’t understand what people meant…it’s called “social anxiety” and at this time in my life I’m very disappointed I didn’t have the babies I wanted or the family dinners I dreamed of…I’m also right now rambling because it was such a horrific day today I just want to “run away” but, there aren’t the jobs and anyhow, why bother looking for a job when I wind up in the same mess, job after job UNLESS, it’s MY business and I’m fully in control. Used to have a wedding and party cake business and I made over $82,000 out of my home in Los Angeles. Here in Houston, even though they have a new Texas Cottage Food Law, and we can bake at home, there are so many stipulations like NO ADVERTISING, NO MARKETING TO RESTAURANTS, NO USE OF PERISHABLES…and the list goes on and on, it isn’t worth it to try. BUT, like ALL of us with ADD/ADHD, I am very talented and, last year during my birthday week (October 20th), I took a quilting class and since I’ve been sewing since I was 6, and had a very successful cake business because of my personal artistic touches (baking, decorating, floral training), its showing up making quilts plus I want to make purses. I lost over $3,000,000 to that company I mentioned earlier, which was initially supposed to pay for the cake shop I wanted so the ongoing disappointment of that financial loss would have been a nice way to start over. If I walk away from this job right now, with the uncertain economy, I’d be hurting myself…I’m not for collecting unemployment but wish today when my boss admonished me and told me either to get better or I’d be demoted a 2nd time, you all must understand my utter frustration and WISH he had fired me so I could be one of those who would look like “I’m taking rather than giving to my Country”. This though, is all part of the life I’ve lived with a phenomena I had no clue about and still am confused about today. Every time I go UP, eventually, it falls apart and now, it isn’t even a big surprise when that happens. I don’t live near my family either…they are embarrassed. They have told me everyone “has it”…or many loose things…how many of YOU, are in one part of your home, suddenly remember something and wind up somewhere else…ME. I also am not a reader although I read very well. If it isn’t on tape/CD, forget it. RARE that I read a book yet, I’m articulate and “well read”…my vocabulary is astounding especially to me…and people I work with, who ask questions about my past are stunned that I’ve had that kind of life when I personally, don’t think I’ve done much or had much. I really don’t want to go on meds again…may have to, to keep this job UNTIL, God Willing, this Country gets back on its feet financially and at my age, which scares the living H out of me, I pray I still have a nice, healthy, happy and hopefully prosperous future. OK everyone, I’m not even going to read this…as I said I’m ranting from the frustration of the day plus other things that have happened over a few months and felt this writing would help me, and hopefully others would see something that would turn on a light to help.REPORT ABUSESeptember 29, 2012 at 3:38 am #115343
allan wallaceMemberSeptember 29, 2012 at 3:38 amPost count: 478
Hiya Flourshoppe! Like a barnacle on the hull of a boat, I’m still pottering around here! 😆
As a chronic underachiever I’m unable to relate to any of your victories, however, as an inveterate loser I’m qualified to remark on your perceived shortcomings :lol:…. 😯 For those of us that know the shame that comes with being the object of derision within families the best way to deal with it is to remove oneself from their orbits! I’m not an expert, I’m not even a layman, I’m just a muddled ADD’er trying to navigate a way through the quicksand that is life. I may be wrong, but I’m beginning to think that the only way to effectively cope with the curse that is ADHD is to be on meds, be in treatment, have counselling or therapy, and somebody that is trustworthy to impart basic life skills…I hope that you can find a way to deal with your issues at the moment! Anyway, no matter how grim my situation may be I think about the heartache that so many more people have to deal with every day! I wouldn’t imagine that it would be very pleasant living in Kabul at the moment, or that going for a stroll in the sunshine in Syria would be at the forefront of many people’s minds…. 😯 Here’s a hug anyway! *HUG*REPORT ABUSESeptember 29, 2012 at 3:53 am #115344
AnonymousInactiveSeptember 29, 2012 at 3:53 amPost count: 14413
You sweetheart, Allan. I AM removed from my family…lived in L.A pretty much by myself except for my now deceased aunt and uncle who only took me to L.A. during college break, to help them get settled but, I never went home again unless to visit. Today, on Facebook I have reconnected with many family members and it’s no different than being close to where they live…I’m the joke of the family…someone to slam and I’ve begun to “scream” at them to STOP…I’m sick and tired of all of your stuff” which has distressed one cousin whose mom and my mom kept us apart because of THEIR stupidity and selfishness. She apparently “cares” and hopefully, being a nurse will read an article I posted about ADD plus some comments and maybe will be supportive. If not, I’m considering either blocking all of them, or closing my FB page. I’m sad to see your “chronic underachiever”…despite the upsidedown world, my now quiet life has me learning a new skill…I’ve very artistic and perhaps, you have a talent you are unaware of. It is tragic the heartache endless people share but you have a life God gave you and through it all, I believe I am someone special in God’s eyes because He gave me this phenomena because He knew I’d be working on it all the time…we are special Allan, so look into the mirror and see past the chronic underachiever part…who you are is there but you just haven’t seen him yet!REPORT ABUSESeptember 29, 2012 at 3:59 am #115345
AnonymousInactiveSeptember 29, 2012 at 3:59 amPost count: 14413
One more thing Allan…being I have virtually no control over my work schedule, I don’t go to church and quite accidentally discovered 2 incredible television ministers…Bishop T.D. Jakes out of Dallas, and Joel Osteen here in Houston. Stunning especially lately from Dr. Jakes, what he teaches that has ME being spoken to…has nothing to do with religion but nothing happens by accident. IF you are curious, watch Dr. Jakes and Joel a few times and hopefully, you might just realize they are talking to you….and is not in anyway, and accident discovering them. And thanks for the HUG!REPORT ABUSESeptember 29, 2012 at 4:41 am #115346
allan wallaceMemberSeptember 29, 2012 at 4:41 amPost count: 478
Thanks for your kind words flourshoppe! I don’t really worry about my chronic underachievement anymore, because they were the external expectations/gauges of other people. I knew that I’d never excel in ‘robotworld’ because I recognised that I lack the attributes required to flourish within those environments! As I’ve aged it has become more difficult to assign habitual blundering on the impetuosity of youth…especially as I’m in my mid 40’s now! I’m gradually coming to terms with my diagnosis, and just like you, I’m struggling to grasp the implications involved in getting to know the stranger that has been one’s life-long shadow, that ratbag that was always getting one into mischief! 😆 You liked the hug, eh? Good! Here’s another one! 😆 *HUG*REPORT ABUSESeptember 29, 2012 at 4:49 am #115347
allan wallaceMemberSeptember 29, 2012 at 4:49 amPost count: 478
I do have an interest in Churchy stuff by the way, but wrestle with scepticism! After many years in churches I’m not only familiar with the sanctimonious hypocrites that are drawn there, and the ambiguities of the bible have always troubled me…I don’t begrudge those the right to seek validation and happiness through Church. If it works for them that’s fantastic, but it hasn’t yielded me much joy! Thanks anyway, and I will check those guys out! I’ve just written their names down on my jotter next to the ‘puter!REPORT ABUSE
Now I'm just madZandra2012-08-02T13:18:25+00:00
Viewing 0 posts
Viewing 13 posts - 16 through 28 (of 28 total)
Viewing 13 posts - 16 through 28 (of 28 total)