What do you all think about Mark Patey?

[seabassd]

I was searching for another ADHD podcast and I stumbled across a podcast by Mark Patey. Just curious, for those who are familiar with him, what do you think about his take on ADHD. I’m a bit conflicted. I sort of like the concept of taking responsiblity for your ADHD and not falling into blaming everything on ADHD. On the other hand some of it feels like “Just Do It” which creates those Guilty, Self-Blame, I’m Lazy feelings which most of us are quite familiar with.

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[blackdog]

@seabassd I’ve never heard of him. But I agree that ADHD can become an excuse. I’ve used it myself. “It’s not my fault, it’s the ADD.” Once you start blaming the ADD it’s easy to sit around procrastinating and let everything slide.

But you’re right that the “just do it” attitude doesn’t work either. I’m feeling kind of down right now because I keep telling myself that I’m going to get going and “just do it” and every day I fail.

I think the answer lies somewhere in between. You can’t just sit back and say its the ADD. But you can’t force yourself to just do it either. You have to figure out how to work with the ADHD.

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[seabassd]

@blackdog

I hadn’t heard of him either until I stumbled across him doing a search. The negative (for me at least) is that he’s a motivational speaker (a sketchy field at best when you consider people like Tony Robbins, etc.). He also appears to lean a little toward the Non-Medication side of things.

Here’s a link to one of his podcasts.

http://markpatey.podbean.com/2013/09/30/how-we-got-here/

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[blackdog]

I don’t much care for motivational speakers either.  It’s like CBT. All that “turn your frown upside down” stuff makes me cringe.

But sometimes it’s okay to have a little boost from someone enthusiastic and upbeat. As long as you temper it with a dose of reality.

As for being anti-medication, that’s a personal choice. I was very anti-stimulant at one time myself. Now I can’t wait to get my prescription for Vyvanse. Counting down the days….

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[Scattybird]

Seabassd – thanks for posting the link.

I have never heard of him before. I am always willing to give something new a try out.

What  amused me here was I decided to listen to the clip on the page you linked us to. I am well medicated today and have been productive (kind of anyway). On days like this I sometimes wonder if I do have ADHD  – forgetting of course that I have Ritalin dripping out of every pore.

But how wrong can I be!  I can’t get beyond the first 20 seconds of his audio clip because I keep noticing the calendar with the circled dates and pressing it which then makes the clip disappear to another bit of the site.

So I guess if playing with his calendar is more interesting than listening without fidgeting then I guess it’s lost on me.

I’ll try again when I am doing something else as a distraction. 🙂

 

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[Scattybird]

blackdog – the just do it attitude doesn’t work with me either. I have spent weeks trying to get a task done for work and so far have failed – so I am getting into trouble now.  Even the adrenalin didn’t motivate me – I just got a stress headache  instead. But today I finally feel like I am making progress with this task. I just hope I don’t lose the momentum.

But I found a quote – I don’t know who it should be attributed to. It’s a bit of a ‘just get it done’ quote, but for some reason it resonates with me better than some of them do.  The quote is:

“Don’t make excuses for why you can’t get it done. Focus on all the reasons why you must make it happen“.

It makes me feel like I need to take responsibility. If it was a ‘just do it’ quote it would annoy me but the wording is more acceptable.  So it is stuck above my desk at the moment.

 

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[sdwa]

Never heard of him either, but have a feeling that if I listened to him at all, I would instantly despise him. But I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. LOL.

Quite seriously, I don’t think a motivational speaker has any business addressing the topic of ADHD. No one should be talking about how motivated any of us is to manage our ADHD, or about the type of attitude we should have.   No one has the right to judge MY level of commitment, interest, willingness, concern, sincerity, etc.

People who try to do that come across to me as self-serving, manipulative, selfish, toxic, and fundamentally dishonest. Successful people who have ADHD often try to dump these guilt-trips, judgments, and snotty “straighten up and fly right” attitudes on other ADHDers who may be struggling – which suggests to me that they feel insecure or fraudulent about their success.

Others seem to feel fine about making money at the expense of the vulnerable.  These are the ones who will tell you you’re not “ready” to deal with your ADHD if you can’t afford expensive services, or they’ll claim their services are expensive because they want “serious” clients , and try to give you some line like if you were serious, you’d pay them money you don’t have. Sleazebags, charlatans, and major league wimps who don’t have the balls to ask for what they need, so they blame other people.

Anyone blathering about motivation is immediately on my list of suspects.

Wow. Don’t get me started, right? Pet peeve.

>:(

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[blackdog]

@Scattybird I know what you mean. It doesn’t really matter how much it needs to be done. In fact, the more important it is, the more likely I am to procrastinate. For me,  focusing on the reasons I must make it happen doesn’t work. If anything it makes it worse. But don’t let me spoil your motivation. If it works for you great.

I’m not really sure what does work for me. It’s like I suddenly just wake up and start taking care of all things I’ve been putting off. And sometimes it makes me wonder if I really do have ADHD. Why can I do it today if I couldn’t do it yesterday? I have to try to figure that out.

I was having a really good day today. I wrote a to-do list on my white board last night and even though I slept late I was ticking them off one by one. But then I had a set back. And I completely lost focus, wandering around the house talking to myself. Didn’t even get out to do the grocery shopping until nearly 5 pm and took an hour to get supper ready when I got back. And now I am trying to convince myself to get back at that list but I’m not succeeding.

@sdwa You could say that it’s one of my peeves too. I hate being told that I just need to try harder. Just like I hate being told that I should go to bed earlier, set my alarm 15 mins early, set my watch 5 mins fast, tell myself that I need to be there at 8:45 so I’ll get there by 9:00…..

What time I go to bed doesn’t make any difference, I already set my alarm an hour early, and if I set my watch 5 minutes fast then I will just have a watch that’s 5 minutes fast. I really have never understood how that one is supposed to work.

I don’t really mind some motivational stuff. I guess it depends on the tone it is presented in. If it is just being positive for the sake of being positive, just “feel good” stuff it’s okay. When I feel like I’m being targeted and told that I’m wrong and the other person is right then it’s not okay.

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[sdwa]

@blackdog

You hit the nail on the head. Being told that I’m wrong and they’re right. Comes across like bullying, and I can’t condone that. A huge busybody contingent of the population thinks it’s okay.  There is an entire philosophy, lifestyle, and culture built around that attitude. Which involves other people trying to force their values on the rest of us. I will never have anything in common with those people.

I don’t mind differences of opinion. But a clash of values manifesting as judgment and/or coercion never sits well with me. If I’m a good mood, I’m better at listening to control freaks. Even a control freak can be right about some things.

I’d prefer to avoid people who can’t help but broadcast their judgmental attitudes indirectly, through their demonstrated assumptions. You know the kind of person who thinks if you were less emotionally screwed up, you’d also change your political opinions, wardrobe, hair, and your profession? I hate how it feels to be around that kind of energy.

I’ve had some mutually respectful relationships with people I have nothing in common with socially, culturally, religiously, politically, financially, intellectually, or in any other way. But they treated me with respect. They listened. If they thought I was wrong, they did a good job of concealing it, or didn’t feel the need to make it personal.

“Feel good” stuff can be okay, but can also carry a hidden guilt-trip, as in the New Age (aka “newage”) thinking that says you control the universe with your thoughts, therefore if you were just thinking the right thoughts the universe would be better, so if things are bad, it’s your fault because of your bad vibes. If you were a better person, you would have been able to cure yourself of cancer. The cancer you caused by not being happy enough. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Heard it all.  That’s why I start retching whenever anyone mentions meditation or mindfulness or visualization. But that’s just my experience.

Anyway, I am  now completely off-topic. So…never mind.

If there’s a point, it’s to trust your gut reactions. If someone feels icky, they’re icky for you. Never mind what anyone else thinks.

 

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[Scattybird]

There’s a whole industry out there aimed at ripping us off. By ‘us’ I mean everyone.  If someone sells a bit of rope and calls it a dog lead they can charge four times the price for it. It’s all about hitting the market and capitalising on what makes someone tick.

There are a lot of people out there who, for whatever reason, are looking for answers – to how they can succeed in their job, in their personal lives, in their happiness. Those people are the so called linear thinkers as well as others who are less linear. Just look at the number of self-help books that are available. There are so many that it makes economic sense to focus on particular groups – e.g. women going through the menopause, people with particular ‘conditions’.

People who are (or have) ADHD are a bit like the dog-owners. They are a target group and an obvious one if we believe that more and more people are being diagnosed. If we consist of around 5%-10% of the population we amount to a lot of people……and the chances are, we are looking for help. If we can’t afford meds and a counsellor then we might be able to afford a few dollars here and there for motivational ‘stuff’.

So I am usually very suspicious and cynical about most of this kind of stuff. On saying that, sometimes things resonate. There is a short ‘Crusher’ video on YouTube about labelling things – it’s a very simple message, but it’s one I try to use to stay on task. Another one (and I can’t remember where I read it) is to adopt the technique that Raymond Chandler used. Apparently he used to allocate himself 4 hours a day for writing his books. But he found it hard to get started, so he made a rule. The rule was he sat at his desk and told himself he didn’t have to write, but he could not do anything else in that time. Boredom presumably kicked in because he wrote. Of course I break the rule and play on the internet but that’s another issue….but maybe not, it’s an example of not being able to get started when others can.

I am a bit oppositional – I can’t do things when told and it really annoys me when people know better than me about how to motivate me. But I also know that I need to be motivated and sometimes nothing at all works, but other times some things do. I want to be a more ‘effective’ person and am willing to listen to what people say in case something works.

I think there is room for different styles of help. I have no idea about Mark Patey – I still haven’t investigated his site so none of this is a comment about him.

However, when I look around at what other resources are out there, I feel grateful we are sitting on TADD.

 

 

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[seabassd]

For me, although I don’t really like to admit it, I can be a bit gullible. I guess that’s everyone in one way or another, but especially those with an issue or need that hasn’t been met. I do not know Mark Patey or really anyone in the self-help industry (at least directly). Maybe he’s a good guy, maybe there’s something good to dig out of his message…or maybe not. People in the motivation and self-help industry can be very persuasive. Their message makes sense on some level, however usually something inside me on a gut level causes the alarms to go off.

I think it’s important to approach anything with some healthy skepticism. I believe that our guts are right on (or what sdwa calls a “icky” feeling) in many cases or maybe all cases on some level.

“Be open-minded just not so much that your brains fall out.”

I wasn’t even looking for this but I ran across it while visiting a site and thought it was exactly on subject. It’s an extreme example, but it shows how things can head south pretty quickly when you put an excessive amount of trust in a guru.

JUST IN CASE, I’m not directly comparing Mark Patey or others in the self-help industry with the video below. This guy is in a league of his own.

Sorry…It’s a bit depressing, and a bit melodramatic. Enjoy 🙂 !

http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/4/5169202/james-arthur-ray-self-help-scam-that-killed-video#ooid=txMmYzaTpo4cwUaVp3qYhi62W2PhgXTf

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[blackdog]

I didn’t really address the issue of the self help industry in my previous comment. I feel the same way about most of it. I am always very skeptical, looking for the angle. Ask yourself what’s in it for them?  I always say “follow the money”.  Usually that will tell you.

I kind of felt that way about the guy I just went to for my assessment. I know he is recognized as an expert on the subject of ADHD and he certainly diagnosed me acurately. But he makes an awful lot of money for very little work and it’s not necessary for him to charge that much. But at least he is upfront about it. He gives a complete breakdown of what you are paying for and even has a disclaimer on one of the forms  stating that there is no difinitive test for ADHD.

I believe that honesty should be mandatory in every business. Products should be marketed as exactly what they are and do exactly what the advertizement says they will do. But that is a little harder to do with self help/motivational services because it is all very subjective. And unfortunately there will always be people who will take advantage of the less forutnate.

I have to admit to feeling the same way about TADD when first seeing products for sale and a big orange “donate” button. My first raction was “oh, I see, yeah, they’re not really trying to help people. they just want to make money.” Or something like that. It’s my natural cynical reaction to everything. Donate to what? What’s the money for? I don’t know these people, why should I give them my money? (BTW, I just ordered a bunch of stuff from the TADD store 😉

I have too many distractions right now and this is taking forever to type. And I’m not even sure what I originally wanted to say anymore. So I should probably stop.

One thing is that I have to disagree about the meditation and mindfulness stuff (respectfully, of course). It really does work. But it all depends on how you do it and there is a lot of bad info out there. Like the ridiculous notion that you have to make your mind go blank to meditate, or that it is going to lead you to enlightenment. I tried meditating when I was younger and gave up because I couldn’t sit still long enough and I couldn’t make my mind go blank or focus on the mantra I was supposed to be thinking about.

But a few years ago I read a book on Zen and discovered a whole new approach to meditation. Just sit and stare at the wall. That’s it. No mantras, no making your mind go blank. You don’t even have to sit perfectly still. If you need to scratch an itch or fidget that’s okay, just try not to do it too much.  And let your mind relax. Just think whatever you think. I can only manage to do it for about 10 minutes at a time but I find it very realaxing and refreshing. It can be a good way to work out problems that are bothering you or find inspiration for a project.

Mindfullness is not something I do well. My mind is never in the same room as my body. But when I can focus and “be mindful” I notice a big difference in my productivity level. And it lowers my anxiety too because I am not thinking about that conversation I had yesterday or the appointment I have tomorrow or how last Christmas was a disaster and it looks like this one will be too and when will I ever get it together?

A good example is today. I have been “trying” to get the living room cleaned up and decluttered for weeks with no success. At the same time I have been trying to do several other jobs around the house and get all my decorations ready and take care of other things to numerous to list. And of course, doing what I am doing right now. But today I got up with only one thing in mind- getting the living room cleaned. I forgot about everything else and just did it. And I got it (almost) done. And I feel really motivated to stay with it. So I am going to go and do that.

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[seabassd]

@blackdog

Exactly the same way I felt about my therapist and the same thoughts I had about TADD when I first visited the site.

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[Scattybird]

blackdog – have a read of “The Mindfulness Prescription” by Lidia Zylowska. There are also audios that go with it that can be downloaded. It’s written for anyone but the focus is on people with ADHD.  I can’t meditate – but this allows for a wandering mind. I think it’s excellent.

I know what you and seabassd mean about TADD and the money side……but the donate button isn’t compulsory and a site of this quality needs funds to survive.  The great thing here is it is open to all. Other sites seem to demand money to progress into them beyond a certain point –  they offer snippets to pull you in and then you have to pay for more. It’s always sensible to be cautious until you know what you’re dealing with.

 

 

 

 

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[sdwa]

It’s hard to find out what you’re dealing with – every potential transaction is a risk. The next time someone gives me that condescending, martyr routine “you’re not ready to deal with your ADHD” I’m going to say, “It sounds like you’re just not ready to be helpful.” God, I had the most revolting experience trying to screen an ADHD coach who made me feel so rotten about myself I need fourteen more showers to get that energy off my body. And that is Not Cool.

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