I just read what I posted a week ago. if I were another reader reading this post, I would think that this person is very angry because of how they word things and use so many exclamation points. I’m going to stop that. I used that punctuation trying to highlight things that I wanted everyone to get, things I felt were important. Man, even in cyber space, I’m trying to control everyone.
When I read Tiddlers response to something I wrote in another thread, he urged me to practice breathing and learn to create some mental visions of water following in my belly to help calm me. I’m not a angry person. But I am way too controlling.
I just realized that all I have to do is write whats on my mind and those that feel what I feel and get what I get will understand. I don’t need to underline, highlight or use specific punctuations to get my point across. I’m not angry or bent on responding to things I have issues with. I just wanna talk and express my opinions and connect with others who are going through what I’m going through. And I want to learn from others who have traveled life a while knowing they have ADHD because they have gained insight and invaluable knowledge.
So if I have offended anyone with anything I have written please forgive me. I really do like this site and the members. Peace and Love everyone.
Heck man, there are dozens of my posts I wish I could remove on this site. In the long run. People will see the real me, as well as the changes in me. I hope you stick around and like the rest of us. Learn to give yourself a break. I bet lot’s of folks already like ya exactly as is.
It might be the hardest thing we will ever do. (give self a break)
Give self break.
Don’t break self, Be nice to self. Talk nice to self. “Self, you’re doing great!, I love you man!” (like that, see what I meen?) “Self, make me a samwich” etc. Do that okay?
Cool Bike! my first motor bike was a 80cc (or 90, can’t remember) Honda elite. I loved it!, Got up in the morn, make coffee, put in jar, take off for the river in only shorts gloves and helmet. Scooters are great cuz you can go barefoot if it’s just up the road a half mile or so… blah blah… yada yada
Religion is not a crime. Unfortunately people use all the crime done in the name of religion, by insane people! to never really look into spirituality. Much more positive than negative has happened due to religion. It’s just not interesting enough to be on the news. Huh?
Miracles do happen. All the time, I should be dead!. but nopeAnonymousInactive
Hey Robbo! We could start the “Should be Dead but Aren’t” club! So you’d think that someone who’s going to school to be a minister would jump up and shout that she’s only alive because God decided it would be so. As it stands, this is something that makes me say “hmmmm”.
I think that over the centuries humans have done a great deal of wrong in the name of religion, either believing it was the right thing to do, or simply using religion as a cover. But you are so right – only the attention getting negative stuff about religion makes it to the media.
Every word you’ve written is coo. Very cool.
You are so dang cool!, please remember this. Remember the source of your coolness too.
I’ve discovered the best youtube video ever. Yet another “best ever”
I hope this link doesn’t shut down this thread. I pray every person who reads this gives it a click, and some of their precious time. I’ve studied this one book in the Bible the most, I wish I could have been treated to this Golden beautiful gem… so so many years ago.
I love this, I’m watching it as I am posting it. Can’t get enough of this stuff.
I think this is the most important thing I’ve ever posted here. N that’s sayen a lot, huh?AnonymousInactive
New member and loving it so far. Being different and excepted (loved) is huge for me. Not to many of my family members believe
in this ADD stuff (we all struggle with this stuff they say….OK) I will try to be short with my testimony. now 62 and female, I’m understanding myself and learning if God loves me I can love me too. Excepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior at 31 and I now have a personal RELATIONSHIP with my creator. WOW it is incredible what I have experienced especially with MY relationships. I am great at condemning myself but God has revealed himself in so many ways, He’s not condemning me I am with the help of the devil’s stronghold. Those in Christ are no longer under the law “10 Commandments” but Grace. (my belief and hopefully nobody is offended with me sharing. It’s not about I’m right and your wrong. I respect you and yours.) I too go to church and get bored, fall asleep and am SOOOOO very distracted with noises. I love children but please dont put me next to one or even somewhat close or I wont hear a word being preached. Yet Sunday I went to our sons church and new the Holy Spirit was present. I love reading Christ center books that draw me into a more intimate relationship with my heavenly Father.(Him revealing himself through His word). With God’s help I hope to get a better understanding of ADD and me finding ways to love and help others along the way. I know alot of people struggling with ADD/ADHD. Thanks to all of you for sharing. I will be praying for you and this website. Thank you Lord for this new opportunity.AnonymousInactive
Ooops, one last thing. I believe Jesus has come to give us life in abundance and the devil is here to rob steal and kill. I believe God
wants us to live in victory with our ADD and the devil wants us defeated (again, my beliefs). Learning some TOOLS that I can use with this disorder (cant stay focused, manage time poorly, misplace things, talk going from one subject to another, procrastinate, start projects but dont finish, just to name a few). is what I am really wanting soooo please share with me what You have learned and what tools are working for you. Thanks a bunch!!!!!!
Hek, it sounds like you’ve got a good foundation started. The most important thing I’ve been learning lately is that this is indeed a very long journey we’re on. Tools huh?, welp, the tools are scattered all over the place here, and probably a few other places on the net. Mixed in with lot’s of endless talk about self. Basically I need to put down some old tools like selfishness, self centered fear, and of course, my desire for “more”. More friends, more pleasure, more entertainment. etc. Put down the tools our culture has taught you to use in the pursuit of happiness. And find some new ones here.
Spend plenty of time reading here, and of course, reading in your Bible. I’ve explored lot’s of different sources of spirituality. Even a lot of the “New Age”, “all roads lead to the same God” stuff that is really just a result of the most current cultural preference. IMHO. I like to keep my relationship with God good and simple. Of course that includes Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. Most of the books I’ve read on eastern lifestyles like the different Hindu sects, and Buddhist philosophies all seem to be written by folks that have really studied the Bible. I’ve been doing Bible studies, tons! for more than 5 years, and I’m real sure I’ve found a path I can fully commit to finally. All the same good philosophy is there, all I need is my open mind and some honesty. Maybe in 10 or 20 years my life will show some real evidence that I chose the best path for me.
I’ve got ADHD, and my imagination can make the symptoms sometimes worse than they really are. The closer I get to God, the harder satan works at keeping me from staying close to God The Father, Jesus Christ The Son, and The Holy Spirit. The symptoms and other human problems I have along with ADHD are some nasty demons indeed. But God’s way stronger. He works through people who don’t even believe in Him ta boot!. Cool, huh?, His ways are indeed beyond my understanding. He uses even idiots, crazy homeless people, and hypocrites from my church to help me.
I’m realizing even as I write here now this morning, that so much of the new learning tools, and new understanding of how my brain works are making a difference with me gaining a better understanding of the Gospel. That’s why I’m so passionate about that link to the movie about Jesus, above. It’s a fairly accurate movie based very closely on the Gospel of John. It’s very much about Jesus. With me it’s also an ongoing and developing discovery of who I really am as a member of His church. I’m finding much more comfort in my discomfort with the world. I don’t like it here!, never have. I don’t really like people either!, SOME REALLY BORE ME, but I’m becoming more comfortable spending time with them. Even hypocritical Christians!.
The worst kind of people! lol.
It’s okay with me if they lie cheat and steal, it’s just human nature. None of us can ever expect to be perfect. That’s just dumb!.
Lot’s of the tools I find here are perfect for me though… Remember that.
I’m taking real action to make the world a better place lately, thinking about me less, and how to love my brother more. That ain’t easy, but hanging out at this web site is helping tons. I’m not here to convert anyone to Christianity, but this is the ADD and religion thread, so it’s okay to ramble until my heart is content about my love for the Lord here. That could take a while… So feel free to take a break.
Recently I’ve pretty much started myself right back at the beginning again learning the principles and directions to finding a reasonably happy life here now in my life. I don’t spend any energy trying to secure myself a place in heaven, I trust my own faith. I trust what the Bible says. And I trust the many many other Christians I choose to work and study with. Unfortunately I’m not going to get to know God’s master plan for the universe, my life, or anyone else’s any time soon. I can wait until I die to find out the whole truth about why soooo many people have to suffer and die miserable deaths in places like Darfur, India, South-East Asia, The middle east, (It’s gonna get bad there real soon too, just trust me on that) and right here in my home town. Even right next door to me, one of my best friends in the whole world is slipping away in MS never never land. That just freaking kills me. I haven’t been able to visit her for about 3 weeks!, talk about painful guilt!. Thank God Jesus talks so much about forgiveness. For now it’s enough to know that people suffer as a result of human choices, we do as we please with the freedom God has given us. God can never really know if we love him if he doesn’t give us a choice. There are no guarantees that any of us will get anything special because we love God either, hek man, I’m in extremely bad pain that no medication I’m willing to take can help with. It’s less miserable knowing Jesus really knows how I feel. When I’m sharing my time, and sometimes the gospel with a new friend, it rarely bothers me.
It’s sometimes a bummer when I let it bother me hearing good Christians talk about how they are so “blessed” while I sit there reeling in pain, can’t pay attention, bored, and thinking/feeling like the only compassion in the world is from Jesus. All I do is remember to keep a solid conscious contact with God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. All 3 work together in ways I’ll never be able to understand, let alone articulate. It’s enough to feel real love and know that when I’m sharing my simple understanding of God to people who are truly interested, ADHD does not bother me. I’ve been trying to find a way to spend as much time as possible helping people. To me success on planet Earth is a matter of having real peace of mind, and never feeling alone. A fast car might be cool, I still get a real kick our of remembering the sound of the engine in my Acura, no radio. The Motor was music. And if you really knew me you’d know that’s saying A LOT!. Going fast is almost as much fun as sharing the gospel. To share it I need to study the Bible. This is where the tools I find here come in handy.
That’s work, fortunately the Bible is huge!, and the more I read it the more interesting it gets. I also love to explore nature, astronomy, physics, and really experience the creativity and imagination that our God is capable of. I love His sense of humor too. It’s a bit quirky, maybe that’s a matter of perspective. I tend to see things very quirkily indeed. It’s a quirky world man!
So far after reading about 60 or 70% of the Bible, I have yet to find any place where it says to stuff the Gospel down anyone’s throat. So that’s why not much of this post tries to prove that how I see things and understand God is correct, or the only way. I just say that I’ve never been as happy and comfortable in my own skin as I am nowadays.
So the tools are really simple, find out how your brain works, and use it!. Sure sounds simple huh?. Sitting in my wheelchair staring at my idiot box is not using it!, fortunately I just recently let that brilliant gem of truth sink into my thick skull. I’ve suspected it for years, but denial sweet denial. Denial allowed me to smoke lot’s of good california weed for years… but that’s another story. And fortunately I found out that was dumb too. Smokin weed is like gasoline on the fire of ADHD.
And that’s all I have to say about that.
This link is to the same movie as above, just a much better quality video
If you don’t like religion I bet you’ll still like this, It’s really just about humanity. Good people, and Love.
Onward and foreword, I’ve found some excellent C.S. Lewis stuff on youtube, I started from the beginning. This is part 7, and I got a gut instinct to post a link here as I was listening to it. Here’s a good place to start in my opinion tonight. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAGM25i1HNs&feature=relmfu
here’s the beginning if ya want to start there. I’ll probably need at least a few more nights to listen to all of em. Mostly because I keep clicking other other “shiny” links and then getting back to this particular C.S. Lewis thing called Mere Christianity. It’s not about any particular sect, denomination, or religion. That’s what I like best about it. He’s one of the most quoted people in lot’s of different religions and philosophies, some of em I don’t actually agree with… Even atheist and agnostics like some of what he’s got to say. I spend some years kinda agnostic, or at least very doubtful that we actually had a God at all. Like most human beings, he’s changed his opinion about the big questions of life a lot. Here’s the beginning. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwgLVJyZryA&feature=related I hope you guys like this, or at least take a peek, challenge your own belief systems. See if you can manage a little bit of humility.
This was a fun 90 minute excursion along the way to listening to the rest of the one’s above. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96uT-BvRi-k&feature=fvwrel The last part is kind of a tender hearted tear jerker; a wonderful story that isn’t even about religion or philosophy, it’s about romance, and real honest whole hearted LOVE!. It’s the BEST!
Have fun, n try not to take yourself, or life too seriously, okay? To me this is all just fun, and interesting, and just plain comforting. Not so much an invitation to a battle of wits or deep philosophical headache making.
I still think Spirituality is about finding true enlightenment, which is to simply lighten up!.
grab some popcorn and enjoy the show.
The director has created an incredible drama for us to laugh, cry, think, ponder, and finally find rest for our tired aching ADHD beaten up soul. Too bad I can’t always see these things as light heartedly as I do today.AnonymousInactive
Thanks for sharing Robbo I am curious, is Mere Christianity based on a personal relationship with Jesus Christ through the work
on the cross which is the bases of Christianity. This morning I thought to myself….God is greater then this inbalance in my brain.
He could suddenly, with the same power that rose Jesus from the dead, cause it to be balanced. Like a miracle. I believe He can,
whether He does or not is what makes Him God and His ways greater than mine. So much I will never understand. I do believe
in healings that’s for sure. Interesting……that smoking pot can make things harder for an ADD person. Can you explain alittle more.
I want the good Lord to help me to get a greater understanding of our condition and teach me how to have VICTORY, succeeding
in life not living in defeat with my symptoms that frustrate me so often. Again thanks for sharing and I hope to get more people
Okay…wow. Someday, my ADHD brain will let me get through all these posts. Anyway, In regards to only the negative stuff in religion getting attention…
Mostly negative stuff regarding anything gets into the news. If it happened all the time, it’s not news. After a while, they even stop reporting the negative stuff that happens all the time, as it becomes mundane. However, of the stuff that gets reported that doesn’t happen all the time, I’m of the opinion that news people are sad sacks, or maybe the people who obsess over news are, because the majority of stuff is negative.
It used to be that the last 5 minutes of any news show was set aside for a “feel good” story. That’s just not the case, anymore. What’s wrong with us that we wanna be served a pile of pessimistic garbage 24/7???
One answer to this problem. Turn it off, and go outside and find yourself an example of something unusually nice. That or go be that person that does something unusually nice for someone else. Man, it sure makes the world seem like a better place than the news would have you believe it is.
Greetings again prayfaynorshinemyfriend,
Here’s my story/testimony. I’ve never actually wrote “my testimony” on purpose. I just decided to call it one on my last pass through it proofreading.
I encourage you to pray very sincerely, read your bible. Then if you’re feeling confident. But by no means at all spiritually prideful. Give any of the writings, or audio recordings of C.S. Lewis a sample. Be sure you are on a solid and very real foundation of humble dependence on our Creator. Remember we are saved and our future as well as our present state of reasonable happiness is through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Paradise awaits us. We can experience some of that paradise in this life. I sure have, surfing!… I found out there won’t be any ocean in heaven a few months ago. Bummer!. That’s okay… I’m sure it will be really cool.
I’m a very firm believer that our Heavenly Father indeed has a sense of humor. He loves us, so it’s a good idea to not take ourselves too seriously. What if the Mormons are right? YIKES! lol. (sorry to any mormons out there, lil joke) I went to the mormon church for a short time. I had fun playing all the sports. Didn’t learn nuthin!.
The Screwtape Letters are a kind of dark comedy that include very serious warnings about how powerful and diabolical the adversary is. Satan, he does indeed exist, I believe there really is a hell as well as a heaven. As they say in eastern philosophies, there’s a yin and a yan.
Do some study about these letters before you listen to them. Tonight, I’ve chosen the ones read by John Cleese, the same dude from Monty Python. He does a wonderfully creepy job of playing the character of a demon’s uncle training a young demon to harass one of us. A Christian. I’m sure there are some folks in this camp who don’t believe in God, heaven, hell, or even satan. But most all of us do believe in evil. I’ll bet even some atheist folks will get a kick outa these dramatic fictional letters.
I’m sure that adhd itself is the work of some kind of specialist demons, maybe a bunch!. Fortunately we’re in the 21st century, so along with faith in our Heavenly Father, the grace Jesus Christ has provides us, and the Holy Spirit. We’ve got medications, specific psychological and spiritual tools, and even specialist Christian psychologists to help us learn to live a good and fulfilling life in spite of our particular gaggle of demons. Our God is so powerful that he’s able to use even the most infected non Christian human beings to help us grow stronger and more dependent on our faith in Him. Today I talked to my new psychologist, she doesn’t mind if I call her on sat. Just to get the name of a new book I’m getting called “Answers to Distraction” the sequel to Driven from Distraction by Dr. Edward Hallowel. He’s super cool. Search for him on youtube. He’s a big round jolly, and very positive character, he looks real funny with his short tie in this one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhoXGXtShGs&feature=related
My psychologist has a masters degree in psychology, and there’s no limit to how many times I can see her imposed by my insurance!, just found her a few weeks ago. She’s a Christian!, AND, she’s got adhd. (sorta really obvious too, lol) I missed my appointment last tues. But today I made the best promise I could honestly make that I would show up next week. I didn’t pray for a therapist or psychologist that I can remember…, I just say “God please help me” a lot. And mostly I say thank you prayers, and pray for friends. I’ll be praying for you too. Along with the folks here. All of them. And of course endlessly thanking God for the people here. Heck I’m not sure I even like it here any more. I just feel like I’ve got a debt I can never repay. That’s bull though, huh?. I’m probably addicted to endlessly reading and writing about SELF. ME!!!. It’s funny, but that’s the main theme in these screwtape letters. Selfishness. Our biggest problem.
I invite you to take delight in the Grace of God while you listen to the reality of our existence acted out in these letters. As I write, I also pray that anyone brave enough to listen to these has the courage, honesty, open mindedness, and willingness to consider the fact that we’re not expected to deal with our demons alone. That’s the whole point of this web site. Thank Goodness for people like Rick, Ava, and the endless names of folks that have helped them. God=Goodness=Jesus=Love=Compassion, on and on…
You asked me about the pot I have smoked in the past and how it probably increased some of the symptoms of adhd with me. In particular it has made my short term memory problems seem worse. I got real lazy too. They call it “stoned” because we sit there on the couch or grass just like a stone!. Frozen in time… lol. I laugh because I’m free from that life. Only God knows the truth about how good or bad pot is. Almost 16 years ago I started smoking pot again after a terrific survival of being hit from behind while stopped at a red light. A 16 year old teen with his girlfriend blew through me going about 45 mph. Launched me 97 feet. ragdoll style… I was on a Yamaha XT 250 Enduro, the pickup looked like it hit a tree. My bike sunk about three feet into the grill, radiator, etc. The dudes girlfriend was not able to give a statement, too horrified/upset to talk. Shards of shattered windshield probably splashed her face as the back of my helmet smashed into it. I don’t remember the first 10 days after the accident. To this very day, I can honestly say that “medical marijuana” was the best choice I was able to make to help me deal with the unbelievable agony of central pain, scoliosis, AKA neuropathic pain. No real family support, my family is likely riddled with add… My sense of humor got us through the first year or two… the grief, I don’t have the words… I truly loved being a carpenter, and a sues chef. Two perfect jobs for the kind of adhd demons that haunt me. I lived about 15 minutes away from the sea, literally camping in the redwoods in a 5th wheel trailer. I have survived by the grace of God. Only after I die, will I know the truth about how closely I have followed the path our God has laid out for me.
Until then I will keep trusting, and never ever deny my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Please be willing to search the rest of the Internet for more Christians to travel this path with. I’m no expert, but it seems that in Canada. The power of the church, and evil corrupt christians have pushed a large majority of our brothers and sisters away from finding out the truth about Jesus for themselves, I can’t be part of that evil, the laws that protect our freedom to believe as we please, are just as God intended. Our freedom is God given, so I don’t talk about being a Christian a lot on the rest of this site. There still is so much we can do to help. I spend my energy helping those who DO want to hear the truth about Jesus. Mostly, I give them a single book to start with. The Gospel of John. If they show increased interest, I also have a box of NKJV New Testament pocket size ones with Master Outlines and Study notes. These books are called “The Christian Life New Testament” I study it a lot. This is the ADD and religion thread, so I can ramble on all I want here.
I”ve been terribly forgetful all the way back as far as I can remember into my childhood. So I sometimes wonder how much I can blame pot for my forgetfulness. Always got in trouble for being late. Sleeping in class, doodling on the palm of my hand, spit wad fights, making paper airplanes with needles glued into the tips that stuck to the chalkboard. (6th grade). And I tend to ramble. (used to be much worse) I’m fairly happy all things considered. I do watch the news every day, I care about what’s happening in places like Syria, Iran, North Korea, the crisis in Europe. And millions in Africa/India/Pakistan… on and on… slowing starving due to drought, apathy, and indifference. It’s painful to watch, I often pray for all of this suffering to end. A part of me hopes the Mayan prophesy comes true in 3 or 4 months. I don’t believe in that stuff though. I’m happy to be alive now. Any life is a good life with Jesus Christ in charge of it. I also do what I can locally, and everywhere I go. Being disabled, I’m paid by the government to be a volunteer. I help my brothers n sisters. Christians and non Christians. Mostly I just listen. I don’t have any pearls to cast, I do hang around with swine. They are the people I have the most in common with. I think the homeless population, the skid row bums, the ex convicts, addicts, and thieves are the people/group with the highest percentage of untreated add/adhd. So I find it super easy to help them. And they help me more than I help them most days.
Here’s the Screwtape Letters link if you dare
Remember to read about this book so you understand the context before you start listening (a note for those of you that chose not to read all of my ramblings)
For those who look for Jesus.
Lately, every time I come to this site I can almost hear the sound of crickets!, maybe most of our members are outside enjoying the sun and warm weather. Soon this site will be buzzing with screwed up ADDers, n healthy ones too!, and maybe a half a percent, possibly more will be people who believe in God. That’s about half the reason this thread has gotten so large. Try reading this whole thread. Every bit. It’s great stuff. I need the humility I get when I read everyone’s opinions and read about how mistakes people like you and me have made hurt them. I am a hypocrite, and I’m guessing you are too!. How does that grab you”? lol. Hopefully I’ll find a way to help them forgive. To forgive is simply to stop suffering from the injury some else has inflicted. IMHO. It’s a way to give ourself freedom. I hope people that actually read all this will be able to figure out my typo’s. I don’t have the energy to edit this thing any more. I’ve only been working on this for about 4 or 5 hours!… I’ll bet this is the largest post I’ve ever written. Maybe my last. If a brain tumor explodes inside my head it’s okay!. I have lived mostly a fun life and I have thoroughly laughed my butt off more than I have cried. So heck man. I’ve never had it so good. This is the only good life I’ve ever known. The only easy life that has ever been mine.
Interesting thoughts, at one time I would I would have agreed whole heartily. I now start too think if we are all not smart enough to understand how great and complete GOD is? Maybe if we could find the nuggets of truth in all the different teachings in the world. Then we might have a much clearer understanding of who GOD is and what his plan is?
I think their is more to how GREAT and filled with LOVE for us HE is,then, only one group can understand! so if we picked to find the TRUTH in all of his teachings we just might have a greater understanding of HIM !!WE MIGHT just love each other a little more and RESPECT each other a little more? food for thought.
<<we are all not smart enough to understand how great and complete GOD is?”>> BINGO! I couldn’t have said that better myself. Well, actually I have said that in so many words, but it’s a wonderful thing when someone else thinks the same thing. It’s fun. Thanks for the food for thought. That’s why I come here.
Those screwtape letters are a very freaky kind of funny. Twisted but harmless when we let go of judgement, then we judge them of course!. It’s a relief to admit we’re not going to be able to get to any specific goal on our own. Like a huge boulder taken off of my shoulders.
I was thinking about you this morning, so I’m glad you’re the one person who had some comments about this post. Did you get a chance to listen to any of those screwtape letters? I’m hoping you liked em.
This morning I’m listening to the Mere Christianity ones. I like all of the C.S. Lewis stuff because it makes me squirm a little bit in my seat. I remember an old wise cowboy looking dude from back in the early 90’s when I went to AA meetings. His motto was “To inflict the comfortable, and to comfort the afflicted” He talked a lot like C/S. Lewis.
Have a good day Trashaman
I’m with Miguel on this one!
What can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.
That sums it up for me, basically.
Even if there are some useful moral rules (of thumb) to go by, coming from those books,
there’s no reason to assume that some god handed them down to mankind.
I’m not trying to offend anyone, that’s truly what I believe! ( please don’t offend me, by praying for me! )allan wallaceMember
Hmmm, very interesting. I’ve always had a fascination for religion and spirituality. Ever since I was a tike. I hope that any of you catholics didn’t go to the Cathedral in East Geelong in the 70’s because I used to piss in the holy water bowl… I said 6 Hail Mary’s and I’m now forgiven 😆
I realised whilst at school that I wasn’t interested in a career and preferred to read books on philosophy etc. but when I was 30
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.