parenting an \"adult\" child with ADD–so frustrating!!!

[teabaglady]

I am trying to cope with an “adult” ADD daughter with little in the line of help or resources other than my own experience and that of my sister. NOT fun! She is 21, out of school, did a year of college, decided she needed a break and never went back. She has few marketable skills and is basically lying in bed most of the day and then playing online. We have been seeing a therapist for over a year now with nothing in the line of results. They seem to do little more than have a nice chat once a month. I try to get her to do things around the house to help out, to raise her self-esteem and get her moving BUT she resists all efforts. My husband, her stepfather, is losing patience and insists she is just pulling the wool over my eyes. He is aware of her multiple issues (ADD, ASD, learning disability and adjustment disorder) and admits there aren’t many jobs she could do but is constantly ragging on me over this. I work full time and leave at 6am for work but somehow I am expected to manage this from there and still get my work done. To say I am stressed and frustrated is an understatement. My daughter realizes she needs to do something to become independent as last year I was diagnosed with DCIS and that gave her a bit of a scare and the fragility of life became very clear. However, she resists all efforts to help her and will not make any effort to help herself. Does anyone have any ideas or resources that might be of benefit here?

A lonely warrior mom.

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[teabaglady]

I should explain the result of requesting help with household chores–I either get agreement that doesn’t happen and if I remind her, she says she did it. Well, perhaps a couple of months ago but not since I asked most recently! And if I push it, I get a meltdown, angry, tears, and the “I hate myself, I am worthless, I wish I didn’t exist and I wish I could die” speech. As long as things are going her and she is not asked to do any work she doesn’t like, she seems happy for the most part.

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[Patte Rosebank]

@Teabaglady, that sounds so much like when I still lived with my parents!  In fact, I *still* struggle with housework!

Is your daughter seeing a therapist who specializes in Adult ADHD?  It’s a very specialized, fairly new, field.  Maybe, your daughter’s therapist isn’t the right one for her unique needs.

Since I was diagnosed with ADHD (aged 41), what’s helped me the most is learning as much as I can about it.  This helps me to understand that those frustrating behaviours are symptoms of a legitimate, debilitating, medical condition—and not deliberate misbehaviour…or laziness…or stupidity.

When I get frustrated with myself, I have to remind myself that *knowing* what you should do, and actually *being able* to do it, are two very different things, for an ADD’er.

This is because the ADHD brain is driven by interest, not importance.

We *know* that doing the dishes and filing our taxes promptly are important.  But, because they don’t genuinely interest us, we either forget to do them, or can’t stand even the thought of doing them.  So, we put them off.  It’s how our brain works.

Rick talks about this, in his most recent Blogs (http://totallyadd.com/part-one-i-wish-id-never-been-diagnosed/) and (https://totallyadd.com/im-not-a-bad-guy-im-dopamine-challenged/).

Maybe they’ll explain it better than I can…and make you smile a bit.  So will the Videos section (https://totallyadd.com/videos/).

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Here’s something else that might help…

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/attentiontalkradio/2012/03/22/executive-functioning-in-adults-with-adhd-a-new-construct

It’s a really interesting episode of Attention Talk Radio, in which Dr. Russell Barkley explains that ADHD isn’t so much an “Attention Deficit Disorder”, as an “Executive Functioning Deficit Disorder”.

He says that we have plenty of “attention”.  What we don’t have, is enough Executive Functioning to translate the ideas (which form in the back part of the brain) into actions (which form in the front part of the brain).

If that’s the case, then maybe your daughter would benefit more from seeing a specialized ADHD Coach, because Coaches help you to understand your needs & goals, and to take action to achieve the results you want.

At least, that’s what mine does for me!

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[teabaglady]

Thanks for your response Larynxa. My daughter was diagnosed at age 6 so we have quite a few years under our belts here. My sister also has a son who is ADHD and is very much involved in the research and advocacy end of things. My ex (my daughter’s father) is also ADHD but refuses to address it. Usually, I can work with “M” (my daughter), get her motivated and on task. However, it is different trying to work with her as an adult and she tends to just refuse to talk things over and digs her heels in, won’t take her meds and refuses all help. It’s like trying to nail jello to a tree. I suspect that this is why her therapist has had no success. There aren’t many coaches in our area and the cost runs at $130 an hour which is not covered under any medical insurance. “M” is far from stupid, has amazing artistic talent, and has remarkable backbone. She has watched many of the videos on this site but can’t seem to make the leap from there to her own life. She would like things to improve but as nearly as I can tell, she is hoping for a fairy godmother (aren’t we all? lol) I am at a loss as to how to motivate her to make some effort as, in the end, I can provide every prop imaginable but unless she will use what help is available it is useless.

I will definitely try to get her to check out the talk radio segment (if I can.) And I am going to get her to the support group meeting if I have to drag her.

Maybe my biggest problem right now is my husband. I can cope with one but not both of them. He knows about the disabilities–I warned him about what we were dealing with before we got involved and at that time, he did some research. However, now he is leaning in the opposite direction and is not very understanding to say the least. He can’t understand why a head on, military style campaign will not work and he doesn’t want to listen to me as he thinks I am just being too soft.

Tempting just to run away sometimes, lol.

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[Patte Rosebank]

@Teabaglady, your husband sounds like my dad!

Always yelling at my mom, putting her down for every screw-up—which makes her screw-up even more, because ADD’ers don’t do well under pressure.  And this makes her beat herself up even more for screwing-up.

It’s a vicious cycle that I’ve lived through too, and it really hurts to see it.  My brother & I dread visiting our parents.  We even have a mantra:  “Thank god I don’t live with these people.”  And, as the two of us are in the car together, heading back to our “sanctuaries”, we discuss the latest visit, try to make sense of it, and make jokes about it.  Sometimes, you just have to laugh, which is why I have another mantra:  “Someday, when there’s no longer any risk of being disinherited, I am going to write SUCH a book!”

It hurts to see Mom & Dad fighting the same battles, over & over, and dragging us into them, but what can we do?  They have to get so fed up with what they’re doing, that they’re willing to do whatever it takes to stop it.  They have to hit that rock bottom, before they’ll have a personal interest in fixing the problem.  Until then, nothing will change.

Maybe letting them hit that rock bottom is the hardest part of all.

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[MarieAngell]

Teabaglady, do you know why your daughter refuses to take meds? Although my son is younger, until he started on meds, he just couldn’t make himself do almost anything productive. It’s very easy to envision being in the same boat when he turns 21 if he didn’t take the meds.

Taking meds might be a turning point for your daughter, IF (the big IF) she would take them.

 

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[teabaglady]

“M” says that she doesn’t like the jangly feeling that the meds give her unless she has some activity to do. It seems to be a push me pull you sort of thing where she can’t get motivated to do anything when not using her meds and won’t take them unless she has something planned. Round & round we go. she had a psychological assessment started yesterday–she was there for a solid 6 hours and will be going back next week to finish it off. I would like to think that something would come of it but I am not terribly optimistic. She is also seeing her therapist tomorrow and I have made her aware of what is currently going on.

I went another 10 rounds with my husband last night which consisted mostly of him shouting (he is half deaf) at me and insisting that she is just being lazy. No amount of reasoning (when I did actually get to finish a sentence) changed his attitude. At this point, I don’t even want to talk to him about anything, never mind this issue.

Oh the joys!

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[Ginniebean]

Having raised two boys I pretty much noticed the delay in maturity most as the usual time for independence approached.  She is not pulling the wool over your eyes. You do need to have a sit down and talk about how she manages her time. Negotiate expectations, and her input of what she feels she can accomplish must be part of that equation if you are going to be successful.

 

She needs external structure, routine etc.. My kids seemed to reach maturity around 24-26 yrs old and reached a level of independence most of their peers reached several years later.

She still needs your help, it may suck but.. I guess the way I looked at is was, the birdies need to know how to fly and survive. Before they leave the nest.  It certainly isn’t new that our birdies are slower.

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[rbb101048]

I have just discovered this site, having stumbled across a program on television which refers to it.  I feel we are in a position similar to that of teabaglady, though my wife and I agree our adult son (age 29) is very ill.

Our adult son displays all (and I do mean all) the classic signs of ADD.  In addition, he has been diagnosed as having a “mood disorder”, but  he stopped going to therapy a year and a half ago (after about 4 weekly sessions) and stopped taking his meds, saying he didn’t liek how they made him feel.  He was not diagnosed with ADD, but it’s my understanding that ADD is often not diagnosed and can be accompanied by other disorders.

He lives an aimless and arid existence.  He is unable to find work, lies frequently, and contributes nothing in assisting my wife and I in maintaining our household, land and animals, something he used to do when he was home  (we live on a horse farm in  Colorado).  Efforts, similar to those made by teabaglady, to get him to help around the house or with chores are met with verbal assent, but he’s incapable of following through with any task. In hindsight, some of the behavior patterns we see now were exhibited in childhood, but to a much lesser extent.  He was a popular, intelligent and engaging child, adolescent, and young adult.  He held responsible jobs in high school on ski patrol and as a counselor at a wilderness camp.

Until a couple of years ago he had a large circle of friends.  He lived abroad and showed initiative in adapting to a new culture and finding and keeping a job awhile attending university. The increase in intensity of symptoms seems to correlate with a period in which he was heavily using psychedelic drugs.   As far as we know he has not used pychedelics for some time, but he is a heavy marijuana user.

Our son has cut himself off from all his friends and abandoned the outdoor activities he used to love and at which he excelled

There are many details I’ve omitted.  As painful as this has been ,the worst part has been our son’s refusal to acknowledge he has a problem or that he is failing in life.  The mere suggestion of this is met with great hostility.

My wife and I both recognize he is ill.  Her main priority is to know that he is safe.  My view is that as long as he is allowed to,live with us there is no chance that he will change.  On the other hand, if we force him to leave there is no doubt in my mind that he will end up living on the street.  Him hitting rock bottom and being in a position where he is demonstrably in the position of being unable to meet his basic needs seems to provide the only hope of forcing him into treatment through the involuntary commitment process.    On the other hand, the physical dangers he would face on the way to rock bottom could end up killing him.  This is a nightmare– doubly so because I was raised by a mentally ill and abusive mother and successfully struggled to escape and make a success out of my life.  I thought I’d left that all behind.

I assume there’s a lot wrong with our, above and beyond ADD, but the ADD symptoms appear salient.    My wife is a wonderful woman, and, as noted above, we both a\recognize what we’re dealing with.  It’s very difficult to talk to her about choices, however, because she cries whenever I try to do so.  We don’t exactly ignore the problem, but we just deal with things a day at a time, which solves nothing.

Is there some middle path between watching  our son vegetate at home and kicking him out?

 

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[Patte Rosebank]

@rbb101048, welcome!

The more you and your family can learn about ADHD, the better.  This website is a wonderful place to start, especially the Videos here: http://totallyadd.com/videos/. You’ll find the latest unbiased information you seek, and the encouragement you need…with enough humour to lift your spirits.

The book, “You Mean I’m NOT Lazy, Stupid, or Crazy?” is another great resource, presented in a very user-friendly way. You can buy it here: http://totallyaddshop.com/.

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It sounds like your son has many of the signs of ADHD, but it requires a formal diagnosis—involving several hours of tests, as well as delving thoroughly into personal and family history (since ADHD is highly heritable)—to confirm this.

The ADHD brain is driven by what’s INTERESTING, while the non-ADHD brain is driven by what’s *important*.  That’s why ADHD is situational…and why we hear things like, “He can concentrate when he wants to”.  (No, he can’t.)

If something isn’t genuinely interesting to us, it doesn’t stimulate our brain enough to work properly. This makes us incapable of finding the motivation to do it for more than a very short time.  It’s not a choice or laziness; it’s a physical impossibility!

When something requires sustained interest and multiple steps, we feel so overwhelmed at the  prospect of it, that we just can’t face it until the last minute. Then, the panic of having to meet the looming deadline often generates enough adrenaline to stimulate our brain, so that we can face the task. Filing taxes is a notorious example of this. Paperwork is our “kryptonite”, because it’s boring.

Your son’s successes with life abroad, and in his ski patrol and camp counsellor jobs, were probably because those situations were new and interesting, and because the jobs involved many different duties and a lot of physical movement. That made them “ADHD-friendly”, since they stimulated his brain enough to function properly.

When our interest-driven brains get bored, that’s when we lose motivation and get into trouble trying to find it.

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I wonder if your son’s reluctance to address his potential ADHD is because he feels like it’s yet another personal failure to get blamed for. Maybe you and your wife share this feeling, and you feel like you’re protecting him by not confronting the issue.  This is a very natural and understandable reaction.

ADHD treatment is a very specialized field, requiring very specialized treatment. Most general counselling & therapy focuses on what’s WRONG with the patient, and needs to be changed. But, if focussing on what’s WRONG with us worked, we’d have become perfectly-functioning people YEARS ago, because we ruminate on our failures all the time!

Most things that work for ADDers are counterintuitive. Instead of focussing on changing what doesn’t work for us, we need to focus on what DOES work for us and figure out how to adapt it to the situations where we’re struggling.

For example, standard organizational and motivational techniques don’t work for ADDers, because they’re based on the assumption that the person can just be told the “right” way to do it, and “choose” to do it from then on. When this doesn’t work for the ADDer, they blame themself instead of the methods…reinforcing their sense of failure.  (Just as the weight-loss industry reinforces the belief that failure is due to the dieter, not the diet.)

So you can see how the wrong therapist can make an ADDer feel worse. Maybe your son’s previous therapist was just the wrong one for him.

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Your son’s dissatisfaction with the meds he was prescribed is another common issue…and not just with ADHD.

Meds for mental issues are never one-size-fits-all, and the necessary trial-and-error process to find the right one for you takes time, and can be very frustrating.

You also need a clear understanding of what meds can and cannot do, and how to assess whether or not they’re working. The main point is, meds are NOT a “magic bullet”.  They’re more like “training wheels” to help keep you on-track while you’re learning the skills you need.

It’s an ongoing, lifelong process, and some days will be better than others, but even “a little bit better” is still an improvement.

And it does get easier!

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[dithl]

@teabaglady – so sorry to hear you are stuck between two people who are not coping well. Sounds like it would be good to drag your husband to a support group (though likely not possible…) Early 20s are such a difficult time…that blessed high structure of school has dropped away, and at the same time we are expected to make major life decisions.

You know, running away might not be a bad idea, if it’s at all possible. Not forever, but somehow give yourself a little distance from this whole situation for awhile. It sounds like you have a lot of responsibility on your shoulders. It could be time to step back a bit and let some of that go? Easier said than done, I know. But part of becoming independent, whatever that eventually looks like, is recognizing and taking responsibility for one’s own difficulties. It sounds like you are managing that quite a bit for your daughter. What would happen if you let go? But I should admit that I am a little out of my territory here. I moved out at 18, married with a son at 19. I probably tend to err on the other side and under-parent now that he’s on his own…

@rbb – you said there’s lots more that you haven’t mentioned…it sounds like your son’s mental health has deteriorated? You mentioned a mood disorder and the fact that he had become more socially withdrawn since his experimentation with psychadelics and current self-medication with marijuana. Do you have someone knowledgeable you can talk to about what you are seeing? I don’t know what mental health supports are in your area but I found attending a NAMI family to family course helped me deal with a loved one’s “adventures” with bi-polar. Other group members were going through situations very similar to yours. In our case, we had very little control over the situation as he was living with his grandparents. I could not wish a more difficult, heartbreaking thing to have to do than to let your child hit rock bottom, and selfishly pray I never have go through that. I do know I couldn’t do it on my own though – you need someone who is outside of the situation who can help you sort out what is helpful, what is enabling, and where your limits are. Here is the NAMI Colorado site – I don’t know if you will find it useful, but I hope you do get the support you need wherever you find it (including this Totally Awesome community). Wishing both of you strength! http://www.namicolorado.org/EducationandSupport/EducationSupportGroups/FamilySupportGroups/tabid/120/Default.aspx

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[teabaglady]

thanks for the responses Ginniebean and Dithl. I have stepped away a number of times as I want this girl to fly on her own–someday. My attitude is that I want to raise a functioning adult NOT to be a “helicopter parent” all of my life. UP til now it has actually worked reasonably well once past childhood and I only stepped in when she needed some help getting back on track. However, we seem to be using the butting heads in the household as an excuse to abdicate from any and all responsibility. Prior to this, the attitude was more along the lines of “I’ll show them!” Now it seems that we just want to disappear back into the days when all that was required of us was coloring. Now given her artistic talent, the coloring is quite advanced (think computer animation) and I understand her fascination with it but she refuses to even consider doing anything related to that for a career or job AND at the same time, refuses to do anything but draw and color unless I drag her out of the house. When this is the case, we are happy to go on field trips to various locations and activities as long as we don’t have to contribute. At the same time, she talks about how she wishes she could contribute.

I, too, see the late maturity thing in her and yes, this is very typical of ADD/ADHD people. We recently had a psychological assessment done and the result of this was that she can function fairly well but doesn’t believe this and her lack of self-confidence and self-esteem are the main things that are holding her back at this point. Yes, I could have told them that without going through 15 hours of testing. But when they suggested counselling etc for this, her response was that it would be no good. I dragged her (almost literally) to a session on coping with stress and oh she was not happy with me but after the session, she admitted that it was helpful. I think that she will make it someday but it’s the business of butting heads with my husband (and also with her father) that makes trying to get there so difficult.

Interesting, rbb, that you mention a parent who was mentally ill. This was my husband’s mother to a T and I hear her echoes constantly. She had an accident and I suspect that there was some brain damage along with the nerve damage that was diagnosed. The result was someone who was devious, sly, vindictive and downright cruel. 4 people bear the mental and emotional scars from the abuse they endured. Only one has sought help with this. Pity.

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[rbb101048]

Thank you for your responses Laryynxa and Dithl.  Dithl, I will contact NAMI Colorado as you advise.  Perhaps a support group will help us devise strategies that have some chance of helping.

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[dithl]

@rbb101048: Wow. Glad I was of help. This internet thing is pretty amazing. Would have been awesome to have this kind of connection 25 years ago when my home life seemed like 1 mental health crisis after another…it was so isolating, and hard to find good information. Yet there are tons of people out there who have gone through similar things. Hope you keep connected and let us know how you are doing.

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[Wgreen]

Just an observation:

“We have been seeing a therapist for over a year now with nothing in the line of results. They seem to do little more than have a nice chat once a month.”

First you say “we,” then then you say “they.” Therapists can’t be very helpful unless and until they get their heads around all the problems. What I see anecdotally and have gleaned from a (Russell) Barclay presentation on a large longitudinal study is that, often times, ADDers simply don’t see the true extent of their “problems” or refuse to acknowledge them. Anybody who has an older ADD child in therapy needs to make sure the therapist gets mom and dad’s side of the story. If Barclay’s observations are correct, the problem may not lie with the therapist, except to the extent that s/he isn’t savvy enough to understand that your child may be pulling his/her chain. It appears that ADDers are notorious for not confronting—for whatever reasons—the serious issues they present. I know. I was in denial for years.

My advice: ALWAYS make sure YOU get face time with the therapist so that all your concerns are on the table. It needs to be a family intervention.

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