[Barrister14]

“I talked with my general practitioner, and he would tend to rule out ADHD mainsly because I never had any problem at school”

I had to restate this posted by Dithl.

DO NOT rely on a GP’s opinion on Adult ADD/ADHD “because you never had a problem in school.” See a psychiatrist or psychologist, preferably the former. For many of us with Adult ADD/ADHD, there was no such thing when we were in our early school years. Technically, I didn’t get in “trouble” in the conventional sense. I would often finish early, get out of my seat and go help someone who was having trouble with the assignment or talk too much to others, trying to help them–all against the teacher’s rules and despite the consequences. But because I was bored, wanted to help someone else and just couldn’t set still my report cards simply noted that I failed to follow directions, talked too much, wouldn’t stay in seat, etc. that in other words I was just a “hyper” kid. But since I made good grades, all of that was overlooked. Year after year (until the suspensions started in high school from skipping, fighting, etc.–but, I still made good grades. And with the mountain of evidence and new medical findings, clinicians are told not to rely on whether a person got in trouble in school often at an early age as an ADD/ADHD indicator. Its still clear that those of us that have it also had it as a child–no question. But its the boredom, the disinterest (and sometimes acting out because you’re so bored) that you look for. And, as has been said here by many, look at how well a person does and focuses on things they do find interesting. But this issue is huge.
I was ruled disable by a judge from “performing the work that I had trained (8yrs) for” and both the government and my own psychiatrist agreed (which is unheard of in the States) about the disabling nature of Adult ADD (and Bipolar 1) but at the last minute, based on a comment from a counselor I had never seen, the Judge said “but you could get a sedentary job that requires no thinking on a canning line, tapping the cans with a wooden stick to see if there is any air in them.” Now what is the worst job in the world you could give to an ADD’er? Mindlessly sitting on his/her rear-end, tapping cans with a stick?! The only reason the judge did this, when he was supposed to only rely on the experts (the gov’t and my doctors)? The counselor whom I’d never seen made the ever-so-common comment: “I just don’t think anyone could get so far in life and be successful if he had ADD.” That’s the old way of thinking but is still prevalent, especially with GP’s because ADD/ADHD always involves other mental issues that they’re not proficient at diagnosing. So, they resort to the now pretty much dismissed rule that you can only have adult ADD/ADHD if you were a troublemaker and underachiever in your early school years. Its convenient for a GP, so he can “rule it out or in”, but with what is known medically today, that “test” has been discredited. Get a second opinion, take the tests and preferably with a psychiatrist or at least a psychologist.

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[Barrister14]

The question of whether “any one else actually do well in school” (with ADD/ADHD) is an important one. And I apologize for a previous long-winded response about my experience. Its a common misconception that if you have a high IQ or do well in school that you could not possibly have ADD?ADHD. Without repeating what I said about this misconception, suffice it to say that even if you made good grades in K-12 grades of school, or college or graduate school, just like anyone else you may have Adult ADD/ADHD. And the affliction significantly can impair your “Executive Function”, no matter how smart you are, and like anyone else it effects your job, relationships, and so on.
I encourage anyone interested in the question of whether persons who get good grades, are very bright, etc. read the scholarly paper by Dr. Thomas Brown from Yale. He has several that are helpful. Here’s a link to one I found to be very helpful because I used to think that you couldn’t have ADD/ADHD if you made good grades or were successful. NOTE: Its in PDF form but if you want to read it just Google “Executive Function In High IQ Adults with ADHD”. Here’s the link (I hope it helps, it did for me): http://www.drthomasebrown.com/pdfs/HighIQAdults.JADonlineversion.pdf

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[Barrister14]

I was almost a straight “A” student from elementary school through high school and college. Played every sport, captain of the football team, played football in college and then was in the top of my class in law school. But at the same time, I was always getting into trouble for impulsive acts both during school time and absolutely risky (but exciting) behavior after hours. So intensely that several times I almost died.I procrastinated, doing my work at the last minute. I couldn’t understand someone having a week to do an assignment and actually start on it, review it, rewrite it and get it in good shape, using that whole week! I did mine the night or morning before due. It was just not exciting enough for me. All of this took place in the ’70’s & 80’s before anyone had heard of ADHD or ADD. There were very few consequences (and I didn’t care even if there were) because every teacher/professor chalked it up to just being a hyperactive guy, after all I made such good grades all of the bad things I did were overlooked. But I always knew something was wrong. I had to be constantly highly stimulated or interested in something new. And once I had tackled something that others thought couldn’t be done but I considered a challenge, whatever that may have been was no longer interesting. So I was wildly inconsistent in my post-graduate year. At every law firm I worked I was immediately labeled “a star”, but that was because it was all new and exciting to me so I worked very hard–until the cases became mundane and my work performance went so far downhill because of procrastination, disorganization, missing deadlines (even reasonable ones) that I would be fired. And that whole process repeated itself over and over. Sp I knew each time that something was wrong. And I sought help many times but because counselors and psychologists didn’t think a person with my education/accomplishments couldn’t possibly have ADHD/ADD, the only model they used was alcohol use, which I admitted to many times as a way to keep my “excitement” level high. So I went, at different times, to three inpatient rehabs and four outpatient rehabs. Didn’t drink for several years at a time. BUT nothing changed. My work habits and personal life were erratic, inconsistent and generally in a shambles. I could (and did, more so than most attorneys in my state) win every Supreme Court case in my State, even though I dropped my briefs off usually 5 minutes before they were due but, even though I made a lot of money, I couldn’t balance a checkbook, pay my bills on time, keep from wrecking cars (sober) or manage relationships.Losing a marriage, house, two cars, jobs and every long-term relationship. Things I of course know how to do, but I just couldn’t do them like normal people did.
Finally, I lost my last job in 2002. After trying to go it alone for a few years, having to run my own office, do the billing/accounting, etc.–all the things I knew how to do–I couldn’t do it anymore without my clients suffering. So I turned my law license in to the State Bar. The Supreme Court was understanding because they’d seen me argue many cases and issued a ruling that if I sough psychiatric help and was cleared, I’d get my license back.
Thank God, that though it took 19yrs. of schooling, 23yrs. of practicing law, not one but two psychiatrists diagnosed and treated me for Adult Add. My whole world changed because the answer I always had been looking for, I had found. Psychologically it explained why I was very prone to drink, engage in very risky behavior, fail to manage my life, my emotions, my finances, my relationships, etc.
And though I may have strayed a bit from the topic, I have to relate this. One counselor who I met only once to do my intake at the first psychiatrist’s office and administered 6 hours of testing (I’ve had four times as much now from two different doctors). Made a statement to a government administrative law judge (despite the ADD diagnoses by the two psychiatrists) that he just couldn’t see how someone could get so far, with so much education and success and have ADHD/ADD. But this idiot’s conclusion after seeing me one time is now universally proven to be ignorant.
Thousands of doctors, lawyers, CEOs and other professionals are being diagnosed. This includes many people who did well in school, so although the stereotype may exist in some places, your education, whatever the level, is not a primary indicator for Adult ADD/ADHD.
For anyone concerned about the educational issue and some of the newest medical info on Adult ADHD/ADD, I encourage to search the web for the research papers and findings of Yale Professor, Thomas Brown. They explain Adult ADD/ADHD than anything I’ve read. And you’ll see your story, just as I saw mine.

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[Barrister14]

I was a civil, criminal and environmental attorney for 22yrs. I lost every job I had because of ADD. I would start out as the “star” but then as matters became less interesting or more mundane responsibility was placed on me, I started neglecting matters until the last minute. But, when something exciting (to me anyway) I was unbeatable, winning eight Supreme Court cases in my state in the USA. More than most do in a lifetime. Then, after the accolades wore off and the promotions/salary increases came, it was back to the mundane, inane, uninteresting paper work. All things I knew how to do of course but just couldn’t bring myself to it. So, usually after a few years (because a firm would keep “gambling” that the falling “star” would rise again), I’d be “let go”. On to the next job, same thing. Personal life was even worse. Though I knew how, I just couldn’t bring myself to pay rent on time, balance my check book, pay bills on time, etc. Combined with impulsive behavior because I needed constant stimulation or excitement, you can add car wrecks and even 8 days in jail for missing a court hearing I had written down wrong. One of the best descriptions of what my colleagues/bosses thought of me after years of this inconsistent performance and inability to manage even the simple things in my personal life was that “you know, he’s the absolute best when interested but undependable when not. And the trouble is you never know which attorney will show up.” So, after many years, employers were no longer willing to take the “gamble” on my ability to perform assigned legal work. I was fired 10yrs ago and no firm, out of dozens–many with which I worked and had friends in–would hire me. Deep depression and anxiety followed and I rarely left the house. I couldn’t make it on my own as a solo practitioner because, again, so much of it involves financial management, small uninteresting matters and so on. I couldn’t pay my bar dues as a result or pay for continuing legal education, which is mandatory. The State Bar petitioned to revoke my license and the very Supreme Court where I was undefeated in so many high profile cases did just that. However, as a Godsend, some of the Court members knew I was a good attorney so in revoking my license they ruled that if I sought psychiatric help and was cleared, I could get my license back.
I was so depressed and anxiety ridden, especially since my license revocation was in the local newspaper, for 2 years I avoided reading the Court order. When I finally did and saw the order recommended psychiatric evaluation, I did so immediately. I was diagnosed with Adult ADD (along with depression, anxiety, bipolar, etc.). When I researched ADD, I was staring virtually at my entire life from childhood to the present. I always knew something was wrong but my relatives would ascribe it to “laziness”, which is typical for a person with ADD.
Now, after 2 years of medical treatment and counseling, I have a new outlook on life and though the very first firm that hired me 20yrs ago now knows what my problem was (there was nothing known about ADD/ADHD back then, I’m being offered a job. I’m not sure I’m going to take it but we’ll see. One counselor, who I saw only once and that was because the Dr. was late and to whom I was only to give a list of my medication to, stated to the Social Security Admin. that in his opinion “no one who is that highly educated and had such success could have ADD.” The Social Security psychiatrist, the second one who examined and assessed me of course disagreed. Now, a 3rd Forensic Psychiatrist has concurred that I have and always have had ADHD/ADD.
I say all of this to any lawyers or other “highly educated” person, you are just as susceptible to having the disorder as ANYONE. And like anyone, it may not appear and so dramatically affect your life until later in life and when you take on more responsibilities.
So, if any of this sounds like you get help. You’d be amazed at the weight of the rock that you’ve been carrying on your shoulders for years. And better yet, you’ll understand why you have done things (of failed to do things) that have at times perhaps made you a “star” but at other times left you wondering why your car was repossessed. Get help and you’ll get Hope.

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[Barrister14]

Orion, Adderall may be a good switch. Just take as prescribed. I was prescribed most everything else before, but Adderall seems to work best., including job hunting (which I’m doing too). Its probably not as good as Dexedrine but it is much, much “cleaner” feeling than Ritalin. You might lose your appetite at first (I used that time to substitute yogurt, granola, healthy stuff, all of which caused me to lose weight–that I needed, but over time your regular appetite comes back). And I’m in the states and Adderall isn’t expensive in my neck of the woods. Taken as prescribed, its pretty smooth but if you’ve got anxiety it can sometimes add to the problem. That’s why on my next psych appt. I’m going to ask for Dexedrine or Vyanase .

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[Barrister14]

Riverblues, speaking as a former river guide (still qualified and part time work for an erratic ADDder, I idendify with you as turning 51 and just recently being diagnosed with ADD/ADHD and starting a medication aspect of treatment. Currently, my psychiatrist has prohibited me from working ANY job, let alone my legal work, for a minimum of one (1) yr. After after that time and with counseling/interviews/more testing and the appropriate med combination, it appears I’m functioning at a high professional level, he “MAY” approve of a return to the work I’m trained for or for unskilled work. I’ve been on the meds now for 6 mos. and as we get the combinations more refined, the better I feel, the more I get done and the more I look forward to the future.

Ritalin for the ADD and Oxazepam (SERAX) was for the first 2 mos. and helped immensely with the ADD/Anxiety/Depression. After a couple of months on the Ritalin, if you feel you’re getting to acclimated to it or you don’t like some of the side effects, talk to your Dr. about Adderall. When I was “upgraded” to the Adderall and a bit stronger anti-anxiety med, I found my focus/concentration level, anxiety and depression to be profoundly affected positively. I’m not pushing the Adderall, though I find its chem composition to have a much “cleaner”, longer lasting effect for me throughout the day. I’m told though that Ritalin is best for some, Adderall for others.

So, best of luck from a fellow traveler and don’t underestimate how well some of the ADD meds work (contrary to what some would suggest would lead you to drug/alcohol abuse.) When I’m taking my meds regularly, I’ve no desire whatsoever to use or abuse alcohol or other drugs (Frankly, I’m surprised how well the meds don’t arouse those thoughts because 15yrs. I probably would have abused.. Bottom line is: Give the meds at least 6-12mos., upgrading/downgrading under your Dr.’s directions to find the right balance. Unless of course your Doc has a different treatment plan.

This is just my long-winded way of saying I strongly support your approach. Don’t give up on the meds, most of the side effects will pass or can be managed with something else. For some of us, the combo of meds and behavioral therapy is working, and working so well that even at our mutual ages of51, I see a strong future–maybe in different, more exciting professions. Just give the meds and the counseling/therapy time to work and then see. Don’t give up! If I can help, just let me know. To many of our friends, family, employers and other “laymen”, we ADDers are simply lazy, indecisive, unmotivated, unreliable, erratic, un-thorough–but sometimes brilliant– individuals that just can’t be figured out and certainly can’t be relied on. Thank God for the psychiatric/medical advances in recognizing the condition in adults and the continuing study of what many of us (and our families, lost relationships, employers, etc.) have suffered in the darkness for so long.

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[Barrister14]

I can’t help but make a friendly comment (but real life observation) about Megatron never being fired. That’s actually wonderful and I mean that not to be funny but I couldn’t help but howl with laughter when I read that! The reason it impacts me in such a funny way is that I’m sure YOU’RE being truthful, and I’m glad for you. Its so refreshing to hear from someone who can actually say that with a straight face. Why? Because in my profession, even though I stated earlier I’d been fired regularly every 5 yrs since I was 16 because of my ADD/ADHD related failings, impulsive (sometimes destructive-to myself and loved ones) acts, unpredictability but then always redeeming myself by performing at a level higher than my peers–according to all 35yrs. of employment records I “resigned to explore other opportunities, interests, etc.” Now, I knew I was fired. I sat there everytime with the client or the employer and we agreed that I no longer had the “fire” for the work, didn’t pay attention to even minor details, blew off important meetings/people that didn’t challenge me, etc. Funny thing is that everytime the employer, often someone who’d become a good friend, was more upset than I was. Exclaiming, just like my mother did when I was in kindergarten:” You’re intelligent!! You know this stuff better than anyone! Why can’t you just “buckle down” ? Are you lazy?,etc., etc.” So, I could without fear of contradiction by any employer or client I’ve ever worked with say that I’ve never been fired because of my ADD/ADHD ingrained behaviors and attitudes. Even though each of those persons would privately reveal to you: “You know, when we were in trouble or had something complicated and critical, he’s the only person you’d want. And right after saying that, it would be: “but we could just never be sure when he’d suit up a do it. When he did, he was the best but when he didn’t, he’d find a way to screw up.”

So, in going through my otherwise impressive resume (though now most all prospective employers know of my “flash in the pan” work approach), you’ll not find one instance where I was fired. But, I know every one of those times, every resignation letter where I wrote eloquently of my partners, co-workers and friends, expressing regret at having to leave to fulfill my desire to hike the Appalachian Trail, and so on. Great thing about that is that at the many jobs I’ve had over 30yrs. and because my “firing” was turned into a lovefest, almost everyone one of these former employers and colleagues still love me (or feel sorry for me). BUT, they would not remotely consider having me as an employee. An unpredictable, impulsive, “live for the day” type of guy they’d love to play golf and socialize with….but work together again? Never.

ON the medicinal and therapy note: The Adderall and Valium (for the associated anxiety disorder/depression) finally seems to be the right combination to keep me focused and moving forward. It took 8 weeks of Staterra/Serax, Ritalin/Xanax, etc. to try to get a medication balance The bi-weekly counseling (with coaching later) is a great accompaniment. I think its a must with the meds. However, I was still advised to apply for SS Disability Benefits because my pscychiatrist (one of the best in our area on Adult ADD/ADHD impairments) has refused to approve me for any form of employment for at least one year, and then only after a successful re-testing/re-evaluation.

MY Catch-22: As a former trial lawyer, if I file for disability and do a good job of proving my case, doesn’t that tell the Judge that I’m not disabled????? Still pondering that one. It is very difficult for us “ADDers” to intentionally dumb ourselves down, even if sometimes we should!!!!

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[Barrister14]

Five years must be the rule. Almost to the day, I lost my last 3 jobs after 5yrs. because of ADD. Each started out exciting, quickly promoted, labeled a “star” (with the results to show it!) and then got bored to the point that the routine or mundane (as I saw it) couldn’t even be accomplished. Though I was at the top of my accounting class and tutored students in Economics, I couldn’t balance my own checkbook, pay my bills on time or handle the basic chores of life that most take for granted. The problem is that at some point that pattern is recognized by prospective employers. Then, like me, you can’t get work in what you’re trained for….your “overqualified” and will “be bored” in other fields…and no one will hire you. Unless of course treatment causes some positive changes. I’m hoping it will and am encouraged by the first few months of medical and behavioral treatment. Thank God for the diagnosis!! I’d known since childhood that there was something wrong and tried to (and in some respects succeeded) develop means of coping with ADD but something still wasn’t right. Now, I see an objective cause for my behavior. That alone has had an incredibly positive impact on me and my future hopes.

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[Barrister14]

I haven’t had the anxiety and physical symptoms with Adderrall, though I can identify with some of what’s been described when I started on Strattera and thereafter Ritalin. Current dose of Adderall is 20mg, twice daily. But with that, for anxiety, Serax (Oxazepam-I think) was prescribed and that helps both with the anxiety and getting decent sleep. I’ll admit, I do yawn a bit within a couple of hours of my morning dose, even though I slept ok. I’m switching to the Adderall XR next week, for some of the reasons mentioned by Dr. J. My Dr. (Pschiatrist) has been very diligent in working out dosage, meds and effects over a 5-month period. Don’t give up without talking to your physician.

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[Barrister14]

Hyper-focus was my ticket to success. When all is chaos (and I sometimes created it by inattention, procrastinating, etc. when the work should have been done on time), I’m the star. Trouble is, as a “hired gun” (lawyer, in my case), most people don’t like to be in crisis constantly. You can be a star at crisis management for short and exciting periods of time in others’ lives. But when that “ability” results from how you’ve lived and approached life since age 5, the downside is your own life. Consistently managing and overcoming major crisises for others never translated into the mundane abilities to balance my own checkbook, pay my bills on time, maintain relationships, etc. Though the college/grad school degrees would indicate to most that all the skills were there. Thanks to all for this new site.

P.S. Hyper-focus can yield great results. But, as an infrequent “lock on” to what’s interesting and not boring—as a way of life–has dire (and repetetive) consequences for we ADD.

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[Barrister14]

I agree with Dr. J. In my case (and that’s all I’m talking about), the instant acting Adderall does act quickly. To temper the anxiety (also diagnosed), Serax (oxazepam) was prescibed. It works for me. But my ADD/ADHD symptoms (problems) and diagnosis covers more than “inattentive add”, as you originally wrote. So, I’m not the best patient to say what works best on the medication side. It does work for me, thank goodness.

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[Barrister14]

I haven’t found the Adderall (starting the XR version for other reasons later this month)to cause an increase or change in my short term memory. Almost the opposite because I’ve found that I concentrate better when I first place some object somewhere or schedule some upcoming chore. So, it usually comes pretty quickly to mind when I try to recall it. Its been a Godsend to me, after so many years, to be able to actually concentrate and “stop the rollercoaster.” And I was a big skeptic of using a stimulant for ADD before I read about it, talked to my Dr. and tried it. To me, giving a stimulant to someone with ADD/ADHD would seem to adding fuel to an uncontrolled fire! But, after trying the medication, the “fire” that I would miss (really, my “creativity”) is still there but its now controlled and better directed.

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