[Bibliophile]

@Rick
What if you can’t determine what you enjoy to do? Or what you enjoy changes often? Also, some things are too general to easily translate into a job. For example, many people enjoy working with computers, but that doesn’t mean they should be programmers or web developers. The fact that they like to work with computers is too general to be used to narrow down selection of a profession.

I can relate to those in a situation where you have become proficient at what you do (mostly office and computer work in my case) even when you know that it is neither an ideal fit for the ADHD mind (repetitive tasks, data entry, few hard deadlines, etc.) nor is the work all that stimulating.

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[Bibliophile]

ADHD is a disorder that I have. It is not who I am; however, it limits what I can do, how long I can do it for, and when I will do it. A blind person is taught how to navigate in a world created for the non-visually impaired. ADHD people are given medication and coping strategies in the same way to overcome our deficit in executive functioning control. This is not the same as saying people should just accept that we are different and teach us differently. ADHD is not just a learning disability to be overcome as it has implications in other areas of life aside from school. Children especially need every tool in our arsenal if they are to overcome this battle with their inability to regulate their behaviour (impulse control) and attention. We want them to succeed in school, yes, but also to have friends, participate in activities, have hobbies, etc.

I stand by the position that ADHD is something that people with the disorder must be trained to mitigate and adapt to (as young as possible). The alternative is to live outside of society and according to our own whims, which aside from a few bohemians, is not an option or realistic. I am all for accommodations when and where they help.

Tonti’s stance against medication contradicts modern thinking about ADHD treatment, he does not address the reality of living in the modern world with ADHD. He just glorifies his ability to jump from one project to the next or “see the big picture.” Does he get proficient at anything this way? How does he know some of these so-called benefits are not gifts he has unrelated to the ADHD as well?

He is not helping the cause. If ADHD is to be taken seriously and addressed, viewing it as just another cognitive variation to be welcomed in society is not helping.

ADHD is not the same as gifted.

I should add that the speaker is still quite young and his opinion/view of ADHD may change once he has left school. Too bad there isn’t a follow-up 5 and then 10 years later.

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[Bibliophile]

@skippingrock

As an exercise, try mapping out/listing a number of the more important failures and successes in your life. Then, list the top three reasons you believe that you failed/succeeded. For me, this exercise quickly brings my ADHD symptoms to the forefront. Also, the number of failures grows to be quite large (and not just because of an overly critical nature as some failures are quite empirically measured).

Two items that might be throwing flags that you might not have ADHD for the professionals are:

1.) You are no longer getting things done now that you are in your 30s. This would imply that they were getting done before. Now stresses change and that can impact attention, but it is curious that the symptoms were not so apparent prior.

2.) School performance was good. I am sure that there are some ADHD sufferers who excelled at school. Based on the anecdotal comments from forum users and my own experience, school performance for ADHD sufferers is quite erratic as external factors (i.e. quality of the teacher, environment and other stressors) will heavily influence performance, regardless of intelligence. The ADHD symptoms tend to prevent what we know from coming out effectively on a regular basis

I am not saying that you are or are not ADHD, just giving you some things to consider. Whether it is ADHD or something else, I hope you are able to come to terms with it and get it under control. The label doesn’t matter, the outcome does.

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[Bibliophile]

Structure of the classes/school made all the difference in my grades. I would get everything from a fail to A+ in a course depending on the teaching style, structure, assignments, etc. Being interested in a course was always a benefit.

The difficulty is that one cannot always take a course that is of interest to fulfill degree requirements.

@WGREEN I loved Roman Art and Architecture and Attic Vase painting, but those are in my wheelhouse. On the other hand, I took Roman Law as it sounded interesting and hated the course.

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[Bibliophile]

@Larynxa
(Off topic, but curious)

How did they differentiate loss of impulse control derived from natural aging processes and dementia from ADHD in later years? Treatment may be the same as the symptoms are, but is it really ADHD?

To distinguish between the two, I suppose, it would be important to look at behaviour in childhood rather than just focusing on adulthood and obtain third party accounts rather than focusing on personal reflections.

For example, my grandfather is not ADHD, but in his later years as dementia set in, he behaved closer to someone with the diagnosis whereas other family members are clearly ADHD and have had their traits manifest throughout their life.

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[Bibliophile]

I second what ADDled has written. The symptoms do fluctuate in intensity.

It is also important to make sure that, when you think things are alright, you are evaluating your actions so that what needs to get done is accomplished and you are not just perseverating on a task, even if it is one you enjoy. It is easy to get stuck on a feeling, thought or activity without rationalizing about if the amount of energy and time spent on that task is warranted or acceptable.

Stress plays a huge component in symptoms getting worse; often stress will produce other side effects as well that exacerbate the condition, e.g., paranoia, compulsivity, insomnia, etc.

Sometimes, when I am doing something I really enjoy and that lends itself to the symptoms, the symptoms seem to blend in the background. This is not often enough though.

The rage component (i.e., inability to control emotional impulses) is a constant struggle and gets a lot worse from stress.

By analyzing one’s own actions and thoughts, it is easier to identify when things are spiraling out of control and try and remove oneself from the situation.

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[Bibliophile]

The difference that biphentin (long-acting methylphenidate) has made for my son’s school performance and ability to read has been incredible. Yes, this is anecdotal, but everyone (family and school) sees a huge shift, especially on those days where we forget.

One way of interpreting the findings is that the medicine proves effective on immediate classroom behaviors like sitting still and interrupting the teacher less, but it doesn’t help with other factors important to successful completion of homework or test-taking, like family encouragement.

I fail to see why the journalist/researchers would expect medicine to even have an effect on the latter. Especially when most long-acting doses are wearing off by late afternoon, when many kids get home from daycares.

The problem with the article is that it questions the medications as if they are a CURE for ADHD, when they are simply another tool in the toolbox for dealing with its symptoms.

The comment at the end mirrors my experience with Adderall; it helps tremendously with focusing but is indiscriminate about what I focus on. It is up to me to ensure that what I am doing is appropriate at the moment.

Basically, medicines can help but do not eliminate the condition. Nothing does.

Sometimes what researchers are focusing on seems like make-work projects.

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[Bibliophile]

The problem is when one’s personal talents conflict with the ADHD symptoms. For example, I love to read but can barely stick with a book. I love working on computers but lack the carefulness/diligence required for programming. While I work in an office job that meets some of my talents, I know that the sitting and repetition of task are boring me to tears.

Medication has helped keep me seated and focused (not necessarily on what I am supposed to be focusing on, but that is another issue).

What is needed is a holistic approach to employment assessment/suitability. You can’t say that Jane loves science so she should be a neurosurgeon if Jane also lacks attention to detail and has horrible time management skills. I only wish that I had mapped out with someone a career plan and goals early on as I feel completely lost now as I enter my middle years.

If someone has typical ADHD symptoms, there will be jobs that are unsuitable by nature for most people with the deviation (Using the term deviation for disorder for those that think it is a gift. They cannot deny that is atypical and therefore a deviation from the mean).

Also, it is difficult to do what you love, as many coaches recommend, when what you love is so mutable.

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[Bibliophile]

Quite the opposite of what Larynxa said.

While it is true that biologically we need only food, shelter (including clothing for colder climates) and reproduction, to actually survive in today’s world, we need money. To do this, we have to have a job, etc. Food costs money, Land to grow food (if not buying it) costs money, Medication to treat illness costs money, etc. In order to make money, we have to have something to sell, whether it is our knowledge, manual labour or goods we produce.

The problem with retreating into fantasies is that it impedes our ability to function in the real world if done excessively. We have enough on our plates to deal with given ADHD symptoms without avoiding reality. We must fight the temptation to withdraw from others for fear of our impulsive actions/behaviours, restlessness or inability to stay on topic making us appear the fool or getting us into trouble and combat against these deficiencies.

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[Bibliophile]

@Evelyn

While “innovative” is sometimes listed as a synonym of “creative” in thesauri, the definitions of each actually differ. The Merriam-Webster dictionary even reinforces that they are not synonymous with this example:

“a creative and innovative young designer” (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/innovative)

I would also point out that someone can be a “genius” without being creative, i.e. composing new things, or innovative, i.e. composing things that introduce a new element not normally associated with the item at hand.

I would agree with the statement that the ADHD brain might be more creative than someone without the disorder in the sense that we manufacture more ideas (quantity) on a more diverse nature (not staying on topic). I disagree that we are automatically more innovative than the others simply because we think of these things.

Another issue I have is how scientists are measuring creativity. Are both qualitative and quantitative measures accounted for? What weighting is applied? How large are these double blind tests? etc.

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[Bibliophile]

I think the answer to whether ADHD people are more creative or less than the median person comes down to how you define creativity. In my view, a wandering mind may come up with lots of ideas, but that does not make them necessarily innovative, which is a criteria for creativity in my view.

Also, productivity, as Rick pointed out, must be present otherwise the creative thought serves no purpose; it must be translated into action.

I think it is important that we distinguish between a natural gift towards a skill or activity and creativity. Being able to play the violin at 5 years of age shows a natural gift towards the instrument and perhaps music in general, but it does not translate directly into creativity as the player may only be able to play what he reads.

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[Bibliophile]

I think if it is an issue that has legal or economic ramifications, e.g. potential libel suit or job dismissal, it is alright to say that ADHD had a role in one’s behaviour.

To a loved one, you can only use ADHD as an excuse so many times, IMO, before resentment. Mind you, I don’t blame anyone for leaving a relationship with an ADHD person if they were unaware at the onset of the presence of the condition or if they are ill prepared to accept it.

For minor slip ups, apologize without mention of ADHD and try to move on. We won’t move on because we will be constantly thinking about the mistake and how people must think of us, but we can try. The good thing is that it is often easy to behave as if we didn’t do something as we often forget that we did or never picked up on the signals that it was wrong/inappropriate in the first place.

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[Bibliophile]

@adhdwife1
I can completely relate to most, if not everything, you are experiencing. All I can say is try to focus on a few specific items and develop habits that can counteract the negative outcome.

I have no solution for motivation other than compulsively try to get work done.

For inadvertent comments, if on the phone, mute it so you can vent and prepare your thoughts. In meetings, take notes as this is a distraction itself and can help formulate rational, less emotional responses.

I need to see things visually organized in order to deal with items so keeping lists and reminders (print or electronic) is very helpful. Enter them immediately though or else they will be forgotten.

Medication has helped me a bit, but is not the complete fix. Therapy might repair the negative self image, but not everyone (including myself) respond well to therapy.

Do not forget to deal with comorbidities, e.g. depression, anxiety, etc., as they may exacerbate the ADHD symptoms.

Take some comfort in knowing there are others suffering like you and that you are not alone in this. Identify your strengths and try to play to them. We all have these, in spite of the ADHD.

Hobbies help too. Both relax the mind and to achieve a sense of self worth through an enjoyable and self improving endeavour.

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[Bibliophile]

Yes, but Barkley is referring to the specific psychological use of the word “perseveration”.

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[Bibliophile]

@Larynxa

You are mixing up “perseverance” and “persistence.” The two words mean different things. The former, perseverance, which Barkley uses, is defined in Mosby’s Medical dictionary as:

the involuntary and pathologic persistence of the same verbal response or motor activity regardless of the stimulus or its duration. The condition occurs primarily in patients with brain damage or organic mental disorders, although it may also appear in schizophrenia as an association disturbance. It is caused by a neurologic deficit.

The implication for ADHD is that hyperfocusing is in fact the continuation of a task beyond completion (inability to let it go) or at a time when continuation is counterproductive to one’s well being or interest. Using your puzzle analogy, it would be a state of hyperfocus where someone cannot stop doing the puzzle until it is completed, regardless of the time or need to shift to something else. Many ADHD sufferers cannot control their “hyperfocus” as it turns on and off seemingly at random.

Persistance is actually something that many ADHD sufferers state that they lack. The ability to dog an idea or task continually, to be able to come back to it a later point, to not get bored or tired of it. The Oxford English Dictionary defines persistance as:

the fact of continuing in an opinion or course of action in spite of difficulty or opposition

Once again using your puzzle analogy, persistent action would be going back to the puzzle over a period of time until it is done. Making sure it gets done, despite obstacles impeding your progress.

I wish I had persistence. I do have perseverance. For example, when I am working on something past my closing time or past bedtime, even when I know that it can wait and I should stop, but I continue on anyway. It is a compulsion at that point.

How many ADHD people have you heard about or spoken to that have difficulties learning musical instruments or getting better at tasks because they can’t stand the repetition. If they could persevere, they could manage performing the same actions/tasks over and over again because they are working towards a goal. However, the ADHD person often can’t persist in this action and moves on to some other hobby. Sure, they may perseverate on an issue/hobby to the exclusion of everything else for some time, but then we move on to something else. This is why making repetitive actions habitually is an excellent coping mechanism for people with ADHD; essentially they are creating a situation where the task must be completed, even if irrational in some circumstances, to get over the lack of interest in completing said task.

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