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@kc5jk & billd
Thanks for the suggestion & confirmation of suggestion…I’m touched that you say this, although I doubt he would go for it. But he might, it would be worth mentioning.
I know what you mean, kc, about how any information from a parent is suspect. That’s a common dynamic for spouses, too, huh? If a suggestion comes from me, it’s dismissed, but if it comes from someone else, it’s a great idea.
REPORT ABUSEWow. I appreciate all of the comments in this thread.
My son, who is 12 and in 7th grade, is struggling in school, and often cries about it and says that he hates it and has nothing in common with the other kids and he’s bored and what they are supposed to learn is pointless, and he won’t do his assignments, I think because they always feel too big to him.
He’s had good years and bad years, but in the lower grades there was more support and less homework. They don’t have the resources for one-on-one tutoring in the upper grades, which he used to get – now they have a special ed teacher who floats around in the main classroom, and it seems not to be helping. It’s like watching a train wreck about to happen.
He has been refusing to take his medication because he feels like people don’t like him the way he is without it, and that they’re trying to change him for their own convenience. I don’t care if he doesn’t take it on weekends but I really want him to take it during the week so he can function at his best in school.
Why are there no support groups for kids and teens? They exist for adults with ADHD, and for parents, but it would be nice if someone organized for and with kids. I don’t have the training or I’d think about doing it myself. By the time I got through school, my kid would be 30, LOL.
I wish my child knew other kids dealing with the same issues, so he wouldn’t feel alone. I wish he had a place to go where he could be accepted for who he is, and be encouraged to learn and grow in his own way. He is a very smart, bright, shiny, imaginative and insightful person.
Schools fail because of the one-size-fits-nobody approach.
I try to help him, but he’s in such a funk about it, he won’t listen to me.
My own attempts to get help for various difficulties due to 45 years of undiagnosed ADD often led me down the wrong path to a lot of bad advice, and I wish I knew how to keep that from happening to my kid.
REPORT ABUSEI can completely understand why you might want to take down the original post. I would suggest that you try not to take it personally, as it clearly is not about you, your videos (which are way fun) or even about this site, or the work you guys have done. I don’t think it’s about hate – it’s about pain, frustration, despair. On that level, it’s a message with a lot of resonance, which is probably why it’s prompted three pages of responses. I can appreciate wanting to maintain certain standards of appropriateness with regard to language allowed. The original poster is venting, in a section called Venting, and when we vent we often say things we don’t really mean. The core message is not the superficial message. In any case, the discussion after the original post seems worth maintaining as there are so many interesting comments, and a lot of them are mine, and I really enjoy my own comments (kidding, kidding.)
REPORT ABUSE@DubRod:
Yes, I love what you’re saying. Self-acceptance means being willing to recognize what I’m best at doing, and to do those things, instead of struggling to improve in areas of difficulty. I could do that, I could try to think like an engineer, but there are many others for whom that kind of thinking comes more easily and who would do a much better job. I have to do certain types of thinking where I work, for which I’m not particularly well-suited. Rather than pursue more education and training in this area, I prefer to shift my attention to what comes naturally to me, what’s easy for me. It takes a lot of energy to try to do what I’m bad at, and can require a vicious cycle of psyching up to perform and then crashing from exhaustion, always feeling like an impostor who might be found out, etc.
The best things I do are organic extensions of myself, my thought process, where my mind wants to go – which tends to be toward visual art and/or writing and editing. (Not as an ADHD trait, but that’s just who I am.) There’s nothing wrong with the comfort zone. If I could afford to pay people to do the things I don’t do very well, I would.
@totallyforgot
(great name, by the way, lol)…
I completely agree that berating ourselves is a pointless activity. Destructive, really.
I think I used to do it all the time because I believed I could bully myself into becoming better – telling myself I should do this, should do that, must straighten up and fly right, should be sent off to boot camp with “the word’s strictest parents” – cataloguing every mistake, haranguing myself for every faux pas, thinking if I got seven things right and one wrong, I had failed and was a bad person, and any act that could be shaded toward the negative, I would interpret negatively. Fighting, constantly fighting against myself.
Much of what I now perceive to be the truth has been completely counter-intuitive for me – like Alice through the looking glass, not at all what I expected. One such realization is that the voice of self-criticism, self-hatred, self-blame, self-recrimination, guilt, shame, fear, etc…is not my ally. I thought it was, but it is actually my nemesis. That voice is not even remotely useful. It’s nothing but a big bully! It’s total B.S. I could have killed myself listening to that voice.
As I’ve practiced ignoring and dismissing it, I’ve come to feel more centered. It’s like I can finally hear myself.
As I read somewhere…”May you be who you are, and may you be blessed in all that you are.”
REPORT ABUSENovember 15, 2011 at 12:29 am in reply to: Why is ADD such a sensitive subject for some people? #109634The main problem is that we can’t “prove” we have it, it can’t be measured with a blood test, it can’t been seen. The other problem is that it raises questions about free will – the extent to which we have control over our actions, our thoughts, our goals and choices. We look pretty “normal,” so people assume we’re all equally equipped to meet the challenges that come our way. If you don’t know you have ADHD, it’s even worse, because when you don’t know what you’re dealing with, you can’t find ways to work around it, and can waste a lot of time trying solutions to completely different problems. Personally, I think it’s better to keep your ADHD to yourself and only share the information with people who “get” you, and everyone else can go take a hike.
REPORT ABUSE@DubRod –
What I’m suggesting, I guess, is that the initial poster doesn’t hate you, but is just deeply frustrated and struggling.
I’ve learned that resenting people who are doing well only causes me to dwell on bad feelings – it doesn’t make me more productive or more effective. But those feelings can happen when I’m in a state of despair, when I feel like nothing I do works, when I feel like I’ve been searching for solutions for years and all my efforts lead to a brick wall. You get that, right? Sometimes people feel like they’ve come to the end of the line, and they feel like failures because they can’t understand why, despite their best efforts and intentions, they still can’t achieve their goals, or even identify their goals.
No one hates you. I’m happy for you if you are doing well, I really am, and if one were to put a more positive spin on the successes of others, at least we can feel some hope that it is possible.
There is this kind of superficial, dismissive, commercial element that creeps into a lot of ADHD material – the “ADHD is a gift” kind of stuff – well, I don’t think it’s a gift in a society where most of us are expected to function in a way that goes completely against how we are hard-wired. It’s a real problem, a real “handicap” in an industrial society.
Pretty much any “right brain” activity involving intuition, synthesis, creativity, holistic thinking, understanding systems and relationships, etc. comes naturally to me (and probably most of us.) The “left-brain” analysis, step-by-step, linear, methodical approach to life is, however, what gets rewarded by society.
As a student, I noticed the education system likes to give out a little piece of information at a time. Here’s a pine cone, here’s an acorn, here’s a leaf, here’s some bark, a rabbit, a deer…and gradually that might add up to an image of the forest, but I would be the last to know. I would learn more quickly if they told us up front: This is a forest. Then I would understand how to think about the things that come from it.
To use another analogy, if someone sets up the file folders for me, pre-labeled, then I can figure out where everything goes, but if I don’t know what I’m looking at, it could takes weeks of piling up seemingly unrelated documents before I could begin to know how to separate them into categories, and even then I’d wrestle with whether the categories were correct. Oh wait, that’s not an analogy – that’s my desk.
I need to see how the parts relate to and form the whole. Without knowing what the Big Picture is, I fail to recognize what’s going on. Most people come at the world with the ability to gradually assemble their understanding in a linear way, or maybe to not even know or care about the Big Picture.
REPORT ABUSEAlso, I would say that middle school and high school are some of the most difficult years in ANYONE’s life. It’s a hard time of life, and it gets WAY better when you get older, largely because most people get over their need to be nasty. Recognize that people who put you down feel bad about themselves and are trying to make themselves look and feel better. It has nothing to do with you, and everything to do with their own insecurities and fears.
Most of the bullying I experienced was in middle school, probably because I felt bad about myself, so I believed the stupid things other kids said to me, and bullies like to see people suffer. I couldn’t hide that I was upset. I spent a lot of afternoons hiding in empty classrooms long after others had gone home, in order to avoid the kids who threatened to beat me up after school. High school was better but I was a loner, and nobody knew about ADHD back then. Everyone, kids and teachers, thought I was on drugs and that’s why I was so spacey, but I wasn’t. I wanted to be accepted by other kids but I didn’t try because I think I’d already given up by then, so I wasn’t exactly an outcast – I just removed myself and took a lot of art classes.
It sucks to be in that situation, but it does get better. The people who are jerks to you now are missing an essential piece of their souls. You need to recognize this, so you don’t buy into their nonsense.
30+ years later…I can promise you that people who are kind, loving, and treat others with respect and compassion impress me a lot more than people who are smart, educated, accomplished, financially successful, creatively talented, or superficially popular.
Make it your policy ONLY to belong to a club that WOULD have someone like you for a member. Anybody who thinks you’re not good enough, for whatever reason, no matter where you are, is not worth your time or energy. Believe and know that who you are is exactly who you should be.
REPORT ABUSE@DubRod…
Who said ADHD was an excuse? I don’t feel like ADHD is an “excuse” for me, because I didn’t know I had it until I was 45. It was a relief to find out and have an explanation for why things are so difficult. I’m not sure anyone on this thread is saying it is an excuse, but rather are expressing the frustration of trying so hard to get through the day and not being able to do that effectively. Some people do seem to like to wear their problems like a badge, but I’d guess that’s just a way of trying to build self-acceptance, and to acknowledge one’s own perseverance and courage which generally no one else is going to recognize…so I don’t knock it. And I don’t take it personally.
The question comes down, in part, to what people value. If I’d valued the pursuit of money above all else, I could probably have made that work. But I don’t. That said, I can understand the deep feelings of frustration many experience at not knowing what to do or how to do it. When I was younger I could never figure out how people got into various careers. It didn’t make sense to me, partly because I had to be interested in what I was doing in order to be able to invest in it emotionally, mentally, or physically, and more significantly because I needed a “big picture” understanding of all the little things I needed to do in order to know how those small steps fit into the larger scheme. Those sort of old “dad” messages about hard work paying off are fine if you want to be a salesman or a banker or a lawyer or an executive, but if what you want is to be an artist, they are not that relevant.
I think if I were clear in my mind and had confidence in my abilities – if I understood what I’m best at and what I care most about – I could find a way to translate that into, if not a meaningful stream of income, at least a way to solidify my sense of self, self-respect, or self-acceptance. I want to know who I am and be who I am, rather than trying to shoe-horn myself into roles that don’t fit me – before I try to become a commodity. These things can’t be pasted on from the outside.
Everyone needs a personal “mission” – a reason for being, a purpose. Everyone needs a sense of personal agency – to know that they can control their own choices – and for a lot of folks with ADHD, that is a challenge. They want to get organized but can’t. They want to complete their to-do lists and pay their bills and show up on time…but they can’t…because they don’t have the skills – and NOT because they don’t have the will. People with ADHD are tough, they bounce back despite the hardest fights. If there were an “A” for effort in life, everyone with ADHD would get an “A+”. It is those unseen efforts, unmeasurable successes that I admire. I would never underestimate the will or desire of someone with ADHD. Nobody here is lazy or indifferent. I don’t buy that.
REPORT ABUSEWhat you described sounds exactly like…ADHD. I have had similar experiences. Time expands and contracts…it’s a major hassle just to get through the day…everything feels chaotic and exhausting. I think a lot of us can end up feeling like we’re failures or inherently just plain weird because we’re not in synch with the rest of the workaday world, and we can’t get ourselves in synch with it no matter what we do, or only in short bursts. One thing I’ve learned is that the Inner Critic who is always berating me for everything I fail to do…is not my friend.
About meds: I think medication is awesome. It can have weird side effects, and might be necessary to experiment with different drugs to find out which one works best for you and/or your kid. I tried 3 or 4 until I got the right drug in the right dosage. Anti-depressants helped me with depression where nothing else ever had, and stimulants helped me with motivation and tuning in and calming down. (I don’t care what your husband’s fears are about medication – you need to do what helps you. If you don’t want to tell him what you’re taking, don’t. He’s got nothing to say about how you choose to take care of yourself – none of his business. With your child, he can have opinion, but for you and your own medical care, no.)
About getting organized: The lack of motivation can put a real damper on the most basic upkeep activities. One thing I’ve found that works is visualization exercises, which they talk about in a book called “4 Weeks to an Organized Life.” I liked the first 10 days the best, now I’m getting kind of hung up on their exercises and following along more loosely. In the first week, though, basically they have you visualize in detail 3 – 5 things that you need to do that day. I found that when I could picture clearly what I needed to get done, like paying a bill, as if I were there doing it, like on a movie screen, with all the scents and sounds imagined as well, I could easily remember to do those activities later, and could do them quickly and more easily than usual.
I tend to get stuck and give up when I’m not sure how to do things, and I guess it’s pretty common with ADHD to not get any sort of mental buzz from accomplishing things, which supposedly “normal” people do get.
One thing I know for sure is no assortment of calendars or planners will ever work for me, no lists or post-its or bulletin boards…because I’m a visual/global thinker, not a linear thinker. Trying to do it the methodical way is like a left-handed person trying to use right-handed scissors. Why do it the hard way?
About the kid stuff: I have a son in 7th grade who also has ADHD. It’s almost impossible to get him to do homework – he doesn’t care about it. No amount of nagging or restriction of activities is going to change that. He needs to be excited and interested, and when he is, he’s unstoppable. I try to support his interests, whatever they are. The school is not much help at all, really. They don’t get it. He also refuses to take his medication because he feels stigmatized by having to take it. He’s easier to be around when he does take it, and I guess he knows I feel that way, so he refuses. He needs to feel there is a benefit to him not to us, after all. I wish there were more resources out there for kids to share their experiences on their own level. Sadly a lot of what’s out there for kids is pretty condescending and clueless.
Dealing with this stuff, for me, anyway, is about learning to let myself be who I am and making it easier to be me, rather than trying to be someone else.
I never knew what to do with my life either, could never figure out a good reason I could stick with, or sense of purpose or direction. I think this is partly due to many external expectations about what I could or should be, which I’ve internalized. What I really want to do is make ugly things pretty and disorganized things logical, which is what I’d naturally be doing if I didn’t feel like I should do something “important.” The distance between the outer expectations and the inner subjective reality is pretty far. I’m trying to learn to be OK with just BEING, not trying to rush around so much trying to justify my existence, not feeling like I should have won a Nobel Peace Prize when I care barely find my socks in the morning. I’m letting myself experiment with it just being OK to take a hot bath, to relax, to find quiet time alone, to take a walk, blow bubbles at the bus stop, and not produce anything…to just let myself breathe, and then when I’m ready if I WANT to do something, I will. Most of what most people do in life is not that monumental, really, anyway.
REPORT ABUSELSA –
Just remember some people are douchebags. I went to a magistrate once to contest a parking ticket, and the guy treated me extremely disrespectfully, and then expressed disbelief when I told him I’m a graphic artist – “YOU’RE a graphic designer???” He was an ass. People in the court system are almost always complete jerks. Goes with the territory. Every time I’ve been called to jury duty the attorneys have been total douchebags to me. Think about the kind of personality who wants to spend their lives judging the behavior of others, i.e. Judges – and the amount of ego they must have, the incredible self-righteousness they must have, to even be willing to make those kinds of decisions.
Sorry for that mini-rant, but all I’m trying to say is: Don’t internalize it. You are not “bad.” The whole thing about people with ADHD being “immature” offends me.
Seriously. Look at the world. As if it were run by such geniuses. As if the so-called “normal” people were in any way kinder, more generous, more loving, more insightful, or more capable of peace or healing.
Since my ADHD diagnosis a few years back, I have come to deeply appreciate the term “differently-abled.”
I hope you can get a professional, like a doctor or some other expert type of person, to help with your defense. I bet CHADD has information about ADHD and dealing with the courts, which you might want to look into.
REPORT ABUSEEveryone’s different. I’m more the introverted type, content to be alone much of the time (although not all of the time, I still want people around.) I was never the outgoing, hob-nobbing, schmoozing social butterfly with a million light-hearted acquaintances…more the type to be very close to one or two people and not need more. That’s just who I am. For me to go out and “market” myself is exhausting, takes hours to psych up for, and is just not my strength, even if I could learn to fake it, I would hate it and be miserable doing it. I do the creative, behind-the-scenes stuff, and don’t enjoy being in the spotlight – it makes me uncomfortable, while others seem to enjoy it. We live in a culture where charisma and working the crowd get rewarded.
I think it’s wrong that being “shy” or introverted is treated like some sort of pathology.
I used to paint…and got together a pretty intense body of work over a four-year period, got into a couple of juried art exhibitions, but I never got around to getting a solo gallery show, which I wanted and felt would have validated my existence….And for a long time, I couldn’t look at other people who were producing great work or getting shows without feeling bad about myself. But I got over it, because recognition wouldn’t have a lasting internal effect. It would be nice, but I think it would feel kind of empty, or I’d start worrying if I could keep getting that attention. All that “outer” stuff – framed certificates on the wall, awards, articles in the newspaper, degrees, credentials, fancy possessions – none of it would make me any more ME than I already am. And then I started asking myself: Do I really even want to do this work, or why am I doing it, and what does the process mean to me? Engaging with the process can put me into a state of flow. It can also be frustrating. It can be emotionally challenging. But I live in the moment, so the quality of the moment is what matters. At the core of it all, though, I think I’ve struggled most with the feeling that I have to earn the right to exist, have to find some way of proving that I was worthy of being born – and that feeling is a real buzz-kill when it comes to enjoying life.
What would it be like to just BE, and have that be okay?
REPORT ABUSEYes, you need a lawyer.
It makes me angry that it is so hard to get help. People who are supposed to know what they are doing often don’t have a clue.
You don’t have to tell your current doctor a damn thing. It’s none of his business.
Also, it is never to your advantage to talk to the police, because it’s their job to use that information to get a conviction. Even if you had done nothing, talking to them would have been a bad idea. (For those in the U.S., see http://www.flexyourrights.org)
Often I think we feel that because we have ADHD we don’t deserve basic respect, or that we’re inherently “bad” – personally I don’t think you deserve to go to jail over this. A competent doctor would have helped you in the first place.
REPORT ABUSEI understand what you mean. The central message of the phenomenon of the Successful ADHDer is that you’re a loser – an even bigger loser – if you haven’t figured out how to parlay your extraordinary ADHD abilities into financial success. I even get that kind of pressure in my ADHD “support” group where we’re all supposed to just cheer the hell up.
But on many levels, the ADHD Success bandwagon is not much worse than the non-ADHD parallel that says rich people are rich because they worked hard and poor people are just lazy. We know hard work doesn’t guarantee wealth. Lots of people work like dogs and don’t make much – and many people struggle all their lives, working two or three jobs, and not because they’re lazy. Or stupid.
I am a blue-collar worker, but I never knew what I wanted to be when I grew up, and didn’t really plan for a career, so I don’t expect to be earning a lot of money. But I have struggled with low self-esteem, chronic feelings of isolation and alienation, lack of direction, lack of ability to make sense of my life, hopelessness, emptiness, wandering like a ghost. I think people who have the outward trappings of success can struggle in their relationships and with the energy it takes to get through the day. I’m lucky enough to have a stable and comforting marriage, but all through my twenties I was alone and thought no one would ever want me. I thought by now I’d have figured out how to earn some decent money, but I haven’t. I’ve never been able to figure out how other people do things – how they know where to go, what to do, what steps to take, etc. Now I’m getting on towards the age of 50 and it’s kinda late to be starting a career, as people my age don’t tend to get hired – are instead being laid off because we cost too much.
Even so, it is never too late to learn new things – and at your own pace. I had a great aunt who went to college for the first time when she was 84. She lived to be 103-1/2. She went because she wanted to learn, not because she wanted to be “successful” (whatever that is.)
I’m at the official poverty line, and aside from wishing I could fix the broken stuff in my house, and wanting to be able to retire, and make sure my kids have some security…I don’t feel lack of money impacts my life that much.
I wanted recognition for a long time. I wanted to be good at something, to impress people. I don’t care about that any more, because I figured out knowing who I am and what I value is what I really wanted the most.
Plus, I’ve known “successful” people who weren’t happy because they felt like they didn’t have a purpose, and that recognition didn’t feed them internally the way they thought it would.
But I’m with you, with regard to – well, a lot of self-help, “positive thinking,” motivational types of messages – obviously, if you could wave your magic wand and transform yourself into a Wizard, you’d already BE a Wizard and you wouldn’t need to.
For myself, I find that it’s helpful to understand ADHD, and to address related emotional issues – but at the end of the day, there is nothing as good as getting the brass-tacks kind of practical skills to deal with it. Unfortunately, there is not much out there that helps with ADHD on that level. Lots of theory, lots of psychology (some of it quite good, like Gabor Mate’s book “Scattered”), lots of directions and good advice, as in Barkley’s “Taking Charge of Adult ADHD” but without a methodology for carrying it out. People don’t get it – if I could figure out how to implement this stuff, I would have done it already. Progress has been incredibly slow for me.
One book I like so far (crappy title, helpful content) is called “Four Weeks to an Organized Life.” It has very concrete, specific exercises, which for me have yielded actual results (for the first time, I was able to get stuff done – and this after nine months of coaching and six months of support group and the reading of all the big name ADHD books, which are good but didn’t tell me how to do anything.)
Just know, you’re not alone. I understand the frustration and despair very well. Not to mention the disgust at seeing a whole industry blossom around this problem…and other people making money off of my desperate attempts to get help. It’s hard sometimes to keep resentment from creeping in, but who does it hurt? I don’t want to be in the ADHD rock star club, and I don’t need the T-shirt. I just want to make my life work. That’s why I appreciate the professionals who do offer real help and have something useful to say.
I’m realizing the problems I have with ADHD are not going to go away, but it’s OK if I live my life anyway, in spite of being “different.”
REPORT ABUSEOctober 11, 2011 at 9:34 pm in reply to: Tell about your big projects, obstacles, outcomes (and treasure!) #108198Project:
Cleaning out (emptying) the downstairs bedroom and painting it. Planning a mural or large painting for that room.
The room was full of junk furniture, trash, miscellaneous stuff, lots of mouse poop, dirty dishes, scattered pieces of toys and games – it was disgusting. I took it on in 3-4 hour chunks. What tended to stop me or slow me down was either not knowing what to do with things (how to organize or where to put them) and just being grossed out. There are times when I go into cleaning mode when it’s easier to throw things away than to analyze their meaning, purpose, or value.
After the cleaning, during which I discovered that some objects could not be removed from the room (such as a television, due to a cable hook-up) I still got almost everything out, which enabled me to think.
Painting the walls took a lot longer than I expected. I did it in about three 2-hour sessions. It was a real physical work-out. Then I ran out of paint.
I still need to paint the ceiling and trim (it’s all the same color – a very bright white.) The brush and roller are still (2 weeks later) sitting in a bucket of water. The newspapers are still on the floor. The empty can is still sitting there. I need to buy another gallon.
Yet, I feel good about my progress.
For the mural, I had months ago collected a bunch of photo reference materials, and in a few 2-hour sessions have 90% completed a small 10 x 12 inch study of what the mural will be like. It is not done, but it’s close.
The “treasure” I have discovered is that it is much easier to engage in a project and find meaning in it when it benefits someone else- in this case, my older son who started high school and should have his own private bedroom. I can get motivated when there is a clear goal or outcome, when I will know when I’m finished, when it’s for a clear purpose, and when it will make someone else happy.
A similar example would be the times I’ve spent cleaning and decluttering a friend’s kitchen because she has mobility issues. It is easier to be objective about another person’s space and stuff, and the work doesn’t carry the heavy emotional weight it would if I were doing it for myself.
REPORT ABUSESeptember 8, 2011 at 8:47 pm in reply to: Just want to sleep and be left alone- part of ADD or something else? #108070What Jensters1205 said reminds me that sometimes it’s easier to fall asleep with the lights on. Why? Because when the lights are off, I feel I’m under pressure to go to sleep – it’s dark, I’m supposed to – and that feeling of obligation stresses me out and keeps me awake. If I leave the lights on, read for a while, and relax, and lay the book open on my chest, and tell myself I’m just resting my eyes for a minute, it’s much easier to drift off.
REPORT ABUSE -
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